yep ,thanks Randy,just left the tonys dcc site and read that you cannot read cvs and not recomended for progamming (the empire bulder)so I think Ill go with the zepher
Two things, the Supe Empire Builder does not include a transforme, add another $40. Also, the Super Empire Builder does not have a seperate program track and cannot read back CV values. I would not recommend the Super Empire Builder as your only DCC system. It's a lot easier to configure decoders if you can read the values, computer hookup or not. And with a dedicated program track you are less likely to accidently program every loco on your layout
If you are running newer locos in HO scale, 2.5 amps is actually quite a bit. I've run as many as 8 locos with the Zephyr, all newer P2K and Stewart plus a Broadway with sound and a pair of PCM with sound. You shouldn't have a problem running 5 powered units with a Zephyr. If you need more power later, you can buy the Super Empire Builder and add that, keeping the Zephyr as a command station. You'd be limited to a max of 10 locos at once, but have the extra 5 amps of power plus a DT400 throttle and still have the dedicated program track and CV readback capability.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
this has been an informative read for me since I to am looking at starter systems ,but for a little over 100. you could get the empire builder @ 5amp & it comes with the 400 thottle . now Im not saying anything ,but isnt that a better value ....my only concern about the other two zepher & powercab is the 2.5 amps ,but I dont no .maybe thats plenty? 2.5 that would run how many loccos ..5 ?,, just wondering what people think who know about this stuff think heck Im not running anything right now,,,,but when I do I would think 5 moter units is what Id might run.... any thoughts cause I just dont know
Two knobs, twice the fun. Add a DT400 to the Zephyr and you have live control over THREE locos at the same time. Two on the DT400 and one on the Zephyr. That's beforer you start messing with recall stacks and the like.
jeffrey-wimberlyIt didn't take me but a couple of minutes to learn my way around the Zephyr's control pad. Everything is right there in one cluster and I don't have to go up and down a panel looking for it.
The exact reason I like the NCE Power Cab. Everything is right there on one interface and - for me - logically arranged and labeled for quick and easy identification and execution of commands.
I will add that I do like the twin knob control on the DT400. That's a nice feature.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
jwils1I think my main point is that each individual must research and try both because our individual needs and preferences are so different, and that's a good thing.
Absolutely. It's sorta like shopping for a car. My preferences and likes in and for a vehicle may be much different than someone else. Size, price, amenities, horsepower, reliability, fuel-economy, style, safety, color, etc: ALL are factors that go into our decision-making process for a new or used vehicle.
In the long run, we can equally enjoy the riding experience of our chosen vehicles because we've spent the time to determine that IT is the best fit for OUR needs, wants, and budget.
jwils1It didn't take me long to learn it and really appeciate its design.
It didn't take me but a couple of minutes to learn my way around the Zephyr's control pad. Everything is right there in one cluster and I don't have to go up and down a panel looking for it.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
tstage I've tried both the NCE Power Cab and Digitrax DT400 throttles. For me, the Power Cab was much more user-friendly and intuitive. However, you should try both systems (Power Cab and Zephyr) to determine which one will best fit your needs and preferences. Tom
I've tried both the NCE Power Cab and Digitrax DT400 throttles. For me, the Power Cab was much more user-friendly and intuitive. However, you should try both systems (Power Cab and Zephyr) to determine which one will best fit your needs and preferences.
It seems to me that "user-friendly and intuitive" are only relevant the first few times you use something. I have also used the Power Cab and DT400 and much, much prefer the DT400. It didn't take me long to learn it and really appeciate its design. I guess it just shows how different we all are. What appeals to one doesn't appeal to another.
I sold my Power Cab and now use a Zephyr with the DT400. In my opinion this is a great combination for many home users. I also have a Prodigy Advance Wireless, which I also prefer over the Power Cab, but not over the Z/DT combo, even though it's wireless. When Digitrax comes out with their duplex radio it will be unbeatable for my particular use.
Also, I have had absolutely no problem with Digitrax manuals. After you perform the more common tasks a few times you no longer even need the manuals. For the seldom used tasks I do refer to the manuals, but I think that would generally be true for most systems. I must admit that I am a manual reader, so maybe that makes Digitrax more user friendly to me than to some.
I really appreciate the size of the DT400 compared to the "huge" Power Cab. It's just so much easier for me to handle and use, and its ability to run two trains at once without button pushing is so convenient. Also the speed control knobs compared to a thumb wheel works better for me.
Now, with all that being said, I want to take nothing away from NCE. It's a fine company with excellent products and many happy users. I think my main point is that each individual must research and try both because our individual needs and preferences are so different, and that's a good thing.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
My LHS simply put them side by side. The Power Cab Sat in a cradle on the side of his layout, The Zephyr sat on a shelf. You can move around holding the Cab to about 6 feet either way without unplugging. When you upgrade, the cab is still a full function walk around throttle. To each his own. As said earlier it all depends on what your club or potential club uses. As far as learning curve the NCE is definitely better in my opinion but that was my first exposure after having a bachmann, and seeign a demonstration against the Digitrax 400 throttle.
Springfield PA
Talk about a learning curve. Like I have said before. The Club uses Lenz, My friend has Digitrax and I have NCE. I did not buy my Power cab on a whim. I researched it and tried them all at shows and dealers. I can do everything with the power cab that I needed to do. Lenz for at home was out of the question. Power cab and Zephyr were almost the same price. I can carry the power cab anywhere in my workshop. Zephyr is like a base station. Go to a local show and hobby shops and try the throttles in your hand. Not only program locos but set up consists and double headers. Find out how to operate accessory decoders with each system.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I'm still trying to learn typing. Hunt and peck is very slow.
Operating my Zephyr is simple.
I guess some things are easier to learn.
Martin Myers
I know what yopu mean about the manual. I had no problem with it either. It's fairly easy to understand, even easier if you have the controller there to work through the technique being discussed as you read it. Of course such things are rather easy for me. I was a self taught computer programmer and tech for 10 years starting back in 83 when 64k was a big thing.
They also complain about the manual, but comparing the first chapter startup with the PowerCab manual they're pretty much identical: connect wires from your track to these terminals. Make sure nothing is on the track. Plug in the transformer supplied. See if the display says this. Put a loco on the track. Push these buttons. Turn this knob - your train should move.
Granted I am a computer-oriented person and I had read the manuals for all of them long before I owned one. However, my ex father-in-law is not a computer genius, yet after I showed him how to run a loco he was easily able to runs trains without needing me there to coach him through how to use it. (I'm talking about the Zephyr here) He never attempted to install a decoder, or program them, but he had no trouble running trains. And a Bachmann EZ-DCC would never have worked, we had way more than 10 decodered locos between us. Sure you can have 4 or 5 locos all programmed on button 1, just only one on the track at a time, but that sort of defeats the purpose of having the space next to the button to write the loco name (and harkens back to the limitations of early commadn control systems with limited channels). I honestly don;t see how that's 'easier' than just punching in the numbers decaled on the side of the loco.Actually it seems easier for a beginner who doesn't know that a 2-8-2 is a Mikado and a 2-8-0 is a Consolidation and a loco with 2 or three trucks and a steam engine hanging on the side is a Shay. Sounds silly because most of us know that kind of stuff - but if I tell a rank beginner "hey, you run the Shay" I might be met with a blank stare, but if I say "Run #592" you can look for that number regardless of loco type. And sure, instead of a loco type you can write the engine number in the space on the EZDCC, etc etc.
Anyway this isn't about EZDCC, but that somewhat illustrates the 'ease of use' myth surrounding DCC.
What's this about a steep leqarning curve for the Zephyr? I made no such observation. I hooked mine up and was programming the first decoder within 5 minutes. Within an hour I had 10 locos programmed. It was a snap. And that was WITHOUT a computer connection.
I have been remiss in mentioning Gadget Tom. Silly name but his prices beat Tony's even. The first couple of DCC decoders I ordered to go with my then-new Zephyr, I ordered form Gadget Tom and even though he's located on the west coast of the US and I'm on the east coast, I got my order in 3 days. Right now he has the Zephyr in stock for $149.99 and the PowerCab for $143.99.
HamltnblueThe Digitrax have a much steeper learning curve...
The Digitrax have a much steeper learning curve...
(Big sigh.....) Why do non-Digitrax users always say that?
I cut my DCC teeth at a club that used a Wangrow System One (same as NCE at the time), but when it was time to buy a DCC system I chose Digitrax for a number of reasons.
I can assure you, however, that none of those reasons were that Digitrax has "a much steeper learning curve". In fact, I found the opposite to be true. It was easy to pick up and use, and it continues to be so.
Steve
I started out with the Bachman EZ command. Nice unit but very limited.
I then switched to the Power Cab on suggestion of my LHS who uses digitrax and NCE, and gave a good demonstration of both side by side.
I've since switched to the power pro which is a 5 amp base unit. The nice thing is I use my original power cab as a dumb walk around throttle with full functionality. I also have a programming track that I can use the same throttle and it's built in power supply.
My experience is to stay away from the power boosters though. I had 2 go bad within a week prompting me to switch to the pro.
The Digitrax have a much steeper learning curve but are very capable.
Whatever you decide I'm sure you'll be happy with it.
Tony list the Zephyr at 160.00$ and the PowerCab at 150.00$
http://www.tonystrains.com/
Jack W.
Right now Walther's has the Zephyr on sale for $180 and it comes with it's manual and a manual with the program codes for all Digitrax decoders at the time of printing.
CPRail modelerabout decoder programming, is that like adjusting CV's?
Decoder programming IS adjusting CV's.
CPRail modeler Will Digitrax decoders work with the Powercab? And about decoder programming, is that like adjusting CV's?
Will Digitrax decoders work with the Powercab? And about decoder programming, is that like adjusting CV's?
Absolutely! Thanks to the National Model Railroad Association and their DCC Standards and Recommended Practices, any decoder will work with any brand of DCC command station as long as the decoder manufacturer complies with the NMRA standards.
I have used TCS, Digitrax, NCE, QSI, SoundTraxx, BLI, and many other brands of decoders and locomotives and have never had a problem programming any of them.
Well, for starters, my LHS stocks both. The Powercab is priced just below $200, but the Zephyr had a price increase up to $242. As for joining a club, I don't know any in my general area. Right now I'm leaning towards the Powercab, but I'm going to be using Digitrax decoders. Will Digitrax decoders work with the Powercab? And about decoder programming, is that like adjusting CV's?
Perhaps I should start searching around for a club...
I own both a Digitrax Zephyr and the NCE PowerCab, I can assure you can't go wrong with either system. Both are equally easy to use and set up, programming is a breeze with both system. While I like both system I prefer the Zephyr as it is more powerful and versatile. It is my opinion the Zephyr also has a better upgradeable path.
CP
For what its worth the Power cab is very easy to use. Probably the easyest systems out there. I have used most systems(Lenz,CVP,Digitrax) but NCE seems to be a no nonsence easy setup and program in a flash. I can put a decoder in and program the address, lighting and motor in less than a munute with out looking at the manual.
Either! Both are good starter systems.
I would ask around and see what other local modelers use. I happen to have a Digitrax system, mainly because everyone else in my area has Digitrax, as well as the club.
Jim Bernier
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
You mention walk around capability. If your layout is small enough that the throttle will reach any portion without having to be unplugged and moved, then the Powercab will get you going out of the box.
If you will need to unplug and move the throttle, you will need to purchase either another throttle or a smart booster. With the Powercab, the throttle is also the command station and must remain plugged in for the system to function.
With the Zephyr, you will need to purchase another throttle to get the walk around capability.
In either case, it would be a good idea to consider what others in your area are using. If you go with the system that is most popular in your area, it will be easier to get assistance if you run into trouble. Another thing to consider; what are the dealers in your area supporting? Most dealers should be able to offer assistance for the systems they sell.
If you provide more information about your layout (existing or planned), it would be a bit easier to get more specific about advantages/disadvantages each system holds for you.
I hope this helps.
Vernon in Central Indiana
Hi guys,
I have decided to use a DCC system for my layout. I did some research and narrowed down my choices to either a Digitrax Zephyr or an NCE Powercab. The main thing I want is walkaround capability. Which one should I use for my layout?