jeffrey-wimberly locoworksthe question that you haven't answered is IF you use a DB150 as the command station and the zephyr as a booster, does the zephyr still act as a programmer with cv readback if you select programming mode?? If it does you get 22 addresses AND cv readback from the same 2 items instead of 10 addresses and cv readback...... No. When the Zephyr is set up as a booster and throttle downline from another command station the Zephyr has no command station capabilities. Page 39 of the Digitrax Command Control Started Set Manual.
locoworksthe question that you haven't answered is IF you use a DB150 as the command station and the zephyr as a booster, does the zephyr still act as a programmer with cv readback if you select programming mode?? If it does you get 22 addresses AND cv readback from the same 2 items instead of 10 addresses and cv readback......
thankyou, the answer i was looking for. with the bonus that the jump ports still work! so effectively 3 throttles still, cool.
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rrinker If I only needed more amps I would use the SEB as a booster, not make it the command station. the Zephyr has more features from a command station perspective than the DB150. The DB150/SEB can address 22 locos vs 10, but it has no CV readback and no program track. This is why I keep suggestiong the SEB as an expansion pack to anyone with a Zephyr (or even a Super CHief) who needs more power AND another throttle - the set is cheaper than the individual items. If you only need more power, buy the DB150 by itself and use it as a booster. --Randy
If I only needed more amps I would use the SEB as a booster, not make it the command station. the Zephyr has more features from a command station perspective than the DB150. The DB150/SEB can address 22 locos vs 10, but it has no CV readback and no program track. This is why I keep suggestiong the SEB as an expansion pack to anyone with a Zephyr (or even a Super CHief) who needs more power AND another throttle - the set is cheaper than the individual items. If you only need more power, buy the DB150 by itself and use it as a booster.
--Randy
the question that you haven't answered is IF you use a DB150 as the command station and the zephyr as a booster, does the zephyr still act as a programmer with cv readback if you select programming mode?? If it does you get 22 addresses AND cv readback from the same 2 items instead of 10 addresses and cv readback......
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rrinker That's why I said not to get the SEB as your only system. But if you don't need to run more than 10 trains AND you're running out of power, it makes a great upgrade to the Zephyr. Not to replace the Zephyr, to add to it. The DB150 in the SEB would be set to act as a booster only, with the Zephyr continuing as the command station, complete with CV readback and dedicated program track. Only now you'd have an extra 5 amps and a DT400 walkaround throttle. That's all if you don't see yourself runnign more than 10 locos at a time, ever. If this is false - by all means go straight to the Chief and do not look back. Although if 5 amps on the Chief becomes a limiting factor plus you want a second throttle - the 'kit' of the SEB is cheaper than a DT400 and a DB150 ordered seperately, plus you get another UP5. Gotta love marketing --Randy i don't know if it is feasable, but if i was adding a DB150 to a zephyr for more 'amps', i would buy the SEB ( with DT400 and UP5 included ) and use the this as the command station as it can run more addresses ( not sure about routes on turnout decoders?? ) and use the zephyr as a 2.5 amp booster. the not sure bit is that if the zephyr is configured as a booster, can it still be used as a programming station on it's program track outputs?? or would it need reverting to a command station to permit this?? and could you still use the 'jump ports' when configured as a booster also?? IF not and 5 amps is enough the zephyr could be used as a stand alone programmer anyway and the SEB as the ONLY thing connected to the layout??
That's why I said not to get the SEB as your only system. But if you don't need to run more than 10 trains AND you're running out of power, it makes a great upgrade to the Zephyr. Not to replace the Zephyr, to add to it. The DB150 in the SEB would be set to act as a booster only, with the Zephyr continuing as the command station, complete with CV readback and dedicated program track. Only now you'd have an extra 5 amps and a DT400 walkaround throttle. That's all if you don't see yourself runnign more than 10 locos at a time, ever. If this is false - by all means go straight to the Chief and do not look back. Although if 5 amps on the Chief becomes a limiting factor plus you want a second throttle - the 'kit' of the SEB is cheaper than a DT400 and a DB150 ordered seperately, plus you get another UP5. Gotta love marketing
i don't know if it is feasable, but if i was adding a DB150 to a zephyr for more 'amps', i would buy the SEB ( with DT400 and UP5 included ) and use the this as the command station as it can run more addresses ( not sure about routes on turnout decoders?? ) and use the zephyr as a 2.5 amp booster. the not sure bit is that if the zephyr is configured as a booster, can it still be used as a programming station on it's program track outputs?? or would it need reverting to a command station to permit this?? and could you still use the 'jump ports' when configured as a booster also?? IF not and 5 amps is enough the zephyr could be used as a stand alone programmer anyway and the SEB as the ONLY thing connected to the layout??
BEAUTIFUL!!!! i got a good grip on the whole digitrax/dcc setup. thanks a million randy!! telling it to me in layman terms i got a good understanding. so, by buying a chief system insted of the zephyr i will auctually be saving money and wiring headaches, starting out with the bigger system. now back to reading all the other fourms on the decoders....
The DB150 is a Digitrax booster ('power supply') and also can act as a command station (the 'brains' in the DCC system). It is available seperately for adding to an existign system when you need more power (multipel boosters do not add power in parallel - ie, if you have two 5 amp booster you do not have 10 amps to the track in one spot. What you do is divide the layout into two sections and each gets 5 amps from the booster conencted to it. Since the boosters share the DCC signal, when your train crosses from one to the other it never notices. We'll hold off on talkign about circuit breakers and power districts until later). The DB150 is also the booster/command station for the Super Empire Builder set, which is comprised of the DT400 throttle and DB150 booster plus a UP5 panel (more later). The other Digitrax bits are the DCS50, which is commonly known as the Zephyr. This is command station/booster as well, but it also has a built-in throttle and is 2.5 amps whereas the DB150 is 5 amps. And the other one is the DCS100, which is a 5 amp booster/command station and is the one that comes in the Super Chief set, which is comprised of the DCS100, a DT400 throttle, and a UP5 panel. The main difference between the DB150 and DCS100 is that the DB150 can address 22 locos (at a time - you can OWN a thousand - you can just run 22 unique addresses at a time) whereas the DCS100 can address 120 locos. The DCS50 can address 10. Also, the DB150 has no dedicated program track output - all programming signals go out the same pair of wires tha tconnect to the track, so you need to be careful so as not to program all your locos. The common way to mange this is to put a toggle switch in the output so that one way it powers the layout and the other it powers a short section of track to use for programming. The DCS50 and DCS100 each have a seperate pair of terminals to connect to an isolated section of track for programming. In addition, the DB150 can only set CVs in decoders, it cannot tell you what the current values are. The DCS50 and DCS100 both can read the current values as well as set new ones.
Every brand of DCC system uses their own wiring system to connect the throttles together. Digitrax calls their Loconet. The DT400 throttle is a walkaround unit - you can unplug it and move to a different location without stopping your train. There are also radio versions available so there are no wires. The UP5 panel is basically a place to plug the throttle in. It has jacks on the back which you use to wire each UP5 together and back to the command station, and jacks on the front to plug the throttle in. Not totally necessary but much nicer than using some generic phone jacks wired together.
Sounds like you will be running anywhere from 9 to 20 locos. In the Digitrax world, you'd probably be best off just getting the Super Chief from the start then. The Zephyr may not handle what you need.
o.k. from reading other posts i understand that a DT400 is the hand held throttle control, but what is a DB150 and a UP5?? and whats there function?? yes i plan on running 3 sometimes 4 trains at a time. my problem( i think) is that each train will have 3 to 5 units or train engines on each train...
rrinker jeffrey-wimberly A few bucks more!? That's like saying a PCM Big Boy costs just a few dollars more than a Bachmann USRA 0-6-0! Try a lot of bucks more. My Zephyr cost $180 and that was on sale! The cheapest 5 amp Super Chief is $400 from Walther's, again that's sale price! That's more than twice the price of the DCS50. An inline booster could probably be gotten for less. I'm using a 5 amp Bachmann booster with my Zephyr and it works great. I picked the booster up for $90 around a year ago. That's fine so long as you never need to run more than 10 locos at a time. Tony's and others have the Super Chief for $50 less than Walther's 'sale' price, and that's their everyday price. Still $200 more than the Zephyr but a DT400 alone is $140. $15 for a UP5... now you see why I say if you don't need to run more than 10 trains, the best 'upgrade' for a Zephyr is a Super EMpire Builder. 5 more amps added to the Zephyr, plus a DT400 and a UP5 panel. For well under the cost of each item purchased seperately. --Randy
jeffrey-wimberly A few bucks more!? That's like saying a PCM Big Boy costs just a few dollars more than a Bachmann USRA 0-6-0! Try a lot of bucks more. My Zephyr cost $180 and that was on sale! The cheapest 5 amp Super Chief is $400 from Walther's, again that's sale price! That's more than twice the price of the DCS50. An inline booster could probably be gotten for less. I'm using a 5 amp Bachmann booster with my Zephyr and it works great. I picked the booster up for $90 around a year ago.
A few bucks more!? That's like saying a PCM Big Boy costs just a few dollars more than a Bachmann USRA 0-6-0! Try a lot of bucks more. My Zephyr cost $180 and that was on sale! The cheapest 5 amp Super Chief is $400 from Walther's, again that's sale price! That's more than twice the price of the DCS50. An inline booster could probably be gotten for less. I'm using a 5 amp Bachmann booster with my Zephyr and it works great. I picked the booster up for $90 around a year ago.
That's fine so long as you never need to run more than 10 locos at a time. Tony's and others have the Super Chief for $50 less than Walther's 'sale' price, and that's their everyday price. Still $200 more than the Zephyr but a DT400 alone is $140. $15 for a UP5... now you see why I say if you don't need to run more than 10 trains, the best 'upgrade' for a Zephyr is a Super EMpire Builder. 5 more amps added to the Zephyr, plus a DT400 and a UP5 panel. For well under the cost of each item purchased seperately.
i didn't want to start a who's cheaper then who war. i don't 'like' the empire builder because of the lack of CV readback which is why i went straight for the chief as an option. the costings do confuse me sometimes as i got my chief from the US and my zephyr from the UK ( where i live ) so in effect i payed almost $200 for my zephyr WITHOUT a psu!! although the difference may be $200 dollars in real money to US citizens between the 2 options, our earnings are £10 for your $10 so in effect it was only a £100 difference for me in my head and as a DT400 locally is around £115 ( $220!!! ) it all seemed cheaper than was. a 5 amp chief is around $570 locally too. another bthing to consider is the chief does not come with a psu, another hidden cost. all that said, i would still say get a chief and don't look back. it is a one off purchase worth the $$
u.p. fan thanks for the responses. my question now is what else will i need to get operating?? understanding that the zephyr will not operate my complete modular layout, only 2 main lines without overloading the system. do i need a booster or?? to get it all up and running....(this is where i get lost)
thanks for the responses. my question now is what else will i need to get operating?? understanding that the zephyr will not operate my complete modular layout, only 2 main lines without overloading the system. do i need a booster or?? to get it all up and running....(this is where i get lost)
Not sure where you heard that. The track isn't going to overload the system. Filling up all those tracks with locos might, either current-wise or be more than 10. If you think that up front you will need more than 10 locos running at a time then you might want to consider a bigger system to start with.
I'd also suggest a Chief system. You'll easily handle the load that was described earlier. A Dt400 throttle will be included which can control two locos- one on each knob-- plus it's recall stack.
If you are not sure of your power requirements, add up the output current on each of your DC power supplies. Get a DCC system that has at least as much current available as the total of your DC supplies. This may wind up being more than is needed, but that's a much better position to be in that having less than required.
Martin Myers
locoworks if you think you need more power than the zephyr and reqiure a booster?? you would be aswell going straight for the chief set instead. it is a few bucks more, but is well spec'd compared to the zephyr. for a few more bucks you could get the 8 amp version instead.
rrinker Well the nice thing is you can start with the Zephyr and add more later as the layout gets bigger, and never have to throw away or try to get rid of the Zephyr. Nothing's ever wasted with Digitrax. --Randy
Well the nice thing is you can start with the Zephyr and add more later as the layout gets bigger, and never have to throw away or try to get rid of the Zephyr. Nothing's ever wasted with Digitrax.
rrinker If you have room to keep them all moving, just try it. Worst that will happen is it will end up being too much and the Zephyr will shut down from overload. Just remove a loco or two and it will start back up again.
i havent bought anything yet. i still running on dc. im trying to find a system that will fit my needs. (its tough to figure this out when you dont understand half of it!!) my main lines are always seprate from each other. i run one tech II transformer for each line now. the only one i really operate is the branch line. the mains are just three big circles, set the speed and walk away...
Well even with ultra low power locos, the Zephyr can only control 10 at a time. Can you actually power 10? Maybe, maybe not. Are the Athearns new ones, or the old Blue Box kind? If the latter, I'd be rather surprised if it can run 10 of them. I had mostly P2K and Stewart locos, and I was able to run 8 at the same time with my Zephyr, but that was more or less the most I could keep goign without crashing into one another. That was 3x P2k GP7, a P2K S-2, a Stewart F-7, a Stewart DRS4-4-1000, a P2K SD7, and a P2K SW-7. I also had 3 sound locos going at once, 2x BLW Reading T-1 with Loksound a BLI PRR M1 with QSI sound. I even shorted the track with the three sound locos going and had no problems with them starting up again after I tooka way the short - no inrush current problem or anything.
If you have room to keep them all moving, just try it. Worst that will happen is it will end up being too much and the Zephyr will shut down from overload. Just remove a loco or two and it will start back up again.
my layout is a modular layout consisting of 4- 60" radius corners and 2- 6' straight sections. it will grow soon also. it has 3 main lines and a branch all built to nmra standards...
how many units can the zephyr keep online in HO?? i run mostly atlas and athearn units. i want to run 4 consists of 3 to 4 units each. if the zephyr cant handle it what do i need?? this dcc stuff is alot to think about for a newbie...