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Athearn Genisis F7 and DCC Issues

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  • Member since
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  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 7:09 PM

selector

Jeff, this was after a reset to factory defaults, which would have demonstrated whether CV5 had also restored V-Max to the motor outputs?

-Crandell

Yep. Problem was I couldn't read anything back from the decoder, not even an address, It responded on address 03 but put out very low motor power but I couldn't read from it or write to it.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by selector on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:50 PM

Jeff, this was after a reset to factory defaults, which would have demonstrated whether CV5 had also restored V-Max to the motor outputs?

-Crandell

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:18 PM

maxman
So, are you saying that the initial decoder was bad because it was not capable of supplying full track voltage to the engine, or was it bad because it did not have one of those back-emf (if that's what its called) features that allows the engine to run up and down hill at a constant speed without engineer intervention?

BINGO! The decoder was damaged and was sending less than a third of the track voltage to the motor. This was only enough to make the loco run very slowly on level track at full throttle. Resetting the decoder had no effect. Replacing it was the only fix.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:48 PM

jeffrey-wimberly
it can effect pulling power by not being able to send full power to the motor. I've seen it happen. I pulled a bad decoder (Bachmann) out of a P2K PA1 earlier this month because of this very problem. I replaced it with a Digitrax DZ125 and now it'll pull the panelling off the wall if I let it. Before it had barely enough power to pull 15 NMRA weighted cars at 30 smph on level track but would stop dead on a grade. So yes, a junky decoder CAN effect pulling power.

 

So that I may educate myself, could you please explain how this happens?  It was always my understanding that the pulling power of any particular locomotive was determined by things such as type of wheel material, engine weight, drive train efficiency, motor, etc.  At a given motor voltage the engine will pull a given load at a given speed up a grade.  None of that changes when decoders are swapped.

So, are you saying that the initial decoder was bad because it was not capable of supplying full track voltage to the engine, or was it bad because it did not have one of those back-emf (if that's what its called) features that allows the engine to run up and down hill at a constant speed without engineer intervention?

Just curious!

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:18 PM

 While it;s true that a junky decoder will NOT warp trucks it can effect pulling power by not being able to send full power to the motor. I've seen it happen. I pulled a bad decoder (Bachmann) out of a P2K PA1 earlier this month because of this very problem. I replaced it with a Digitrax DZ125 and now it'll pull the panelling off the wall if I let it. Before it had barely enough power to pull 15 NMRA weighted cars at 30 smph on level track but would stop dead on a grade. So yes, a junky decoder CAN effect pulling power.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


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Posted by grumpy old trainguy on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:22 AM

if you have a junker locomotive, lets say a Tyco GG-1 from the 70's that ran like garbage in it's hey day...you could put a nuclear reactor in it today and it will still run like garbage, never mind a good expensive decoder.

a decoder whether MRC or QSI or Soundtraxx can not warp an SD70's trucks or affect the pulling power of a loco. if there is a quality issue like warped trucks a garbage drive train, why blame the decoder manufacturer, why not blame the loco manufacturer? if the loco is a skunk to begin with, nothing can help it unless you are good with tinkering, [or total rebuilding...i think that is why NWSL filled the niche]...Anyway even if there are quality problems with Athearn sound locos,, [mechanical or otherwise],  wouldn't it be up to Athearn to check the products 100% before they left the factory to ensure customer satisfaction?

is the dcc system and decoder manufacturers responsible for operator error because most self proclaimed dcc experts still have "12:00" flashing on their VCR's?

"Nuff said"...i should really get back to work before i get fired

Grumpy
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Posted by Last Chance on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:52 AM

 The pulling power of a Locomotive starts with weight on the driving wheels. Then there is availible tractive area of the wheels against the rail to consider. If the trucks are warped or wheels out of gauge... it:s not going to develop good TE. Throw in a bricker decoder you will not really be able to operate the motor in the locomotive at good performace further degrading TE.

Finally but not last, quality of drive trains connective to the motor and the wheels is important as well. That 60 year old rubber band drive choo choo cannot be expected to operate well.

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Posted by grumpy old trainguy on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:25 AM

I had asked the question on another thread who makes the Athearn sound decoders but i see on this thread everyone is saying MRC makes the sound decoders for Athearn...i have one question...one of the posters here stated the following:

"Yes, every Genesis I've purchased (SD70s, 4-6-6-4, Fs... seems like I'm missing one) have had some sort of problems.  MOST of which are due to the junky MRC electronics they use in them.  I assume the 4-6-6-4 is a great machine but I've not been able to get mine to run since I tried to change the channel number from #3 to something else.  The SD70s have all had warped trucks.  The Fs can't put half of what the Stewart/Kato can.  sigh.  I've stopped purchasing Athearn due to this issue.  I keep hoping they will fix it in the near future."

 Maybe i'm not the brightest bulb in the box, but how does the "junky electronics" as you state warp the SD70 trucks or have anything to do with the pulling power of the loco? Can a decoder do this?

Also most times when you can not change a locos channel, [i assume you mean it's address, unless you are trying to watch Fox News through your loco], it is usually dcc system operator error.

i have decoders from all brands at times go up in smoke, [my own installation erros] or die, i can not say that only one brand is no good. the guys in my club go through decoders like Grant went through Richmond and they mostly use TCS decoders and Broadway Limited locos.

i have bought Athearn sound locos since they first released the Challenger and the F units, and they still run and sound great, never forget their addresses, and never had been back to Athearn for any reason. That is why i also bought the Big Boys, FEF's, SD45-2's, MP-15's, SD60's and FP45's because they are quality products.  

Enough of my ranting...you all have a nice day

Grumpy
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 1:28 PM

 Almost all of the Athearn's I buy are the older BB locos though I do have some of the newer rtr (Ready To Rebuild) locos. I've had to rework the trucks on 4 of the 5 that I have, resolder all of the solder joints because they were so poorly done and had to replace the motors in three of them with motors from older BB locos. I've found the light boards to be almost worthless for my needs and send them to whoever might need one as I replace all the lights with standard 12v 25Ma bulbs anyway. As these are too large to fit the holes that the much smaller 1.5v bulbs came out of I use Super Glue Gel to make lenses over the holes.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


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Posted by Grand Skunk Conductor on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:55 AM

I have 3 AB sets of Genesis with sound and DCC in Santa Fe. 2 of the sets work great. The third is a dud. It is actually on its second trip to California (I live in Canada) to get the DCC fixed.

Athearn is paying the shipping for each trip. I hope they sen a new set this time or the shipping could cost more than the Loco's. I would suggest e-mailing Athearn from their website and explain your problem, they will probably ask you to send them in to them for repair. Don't say anything about having switched things around.

 Near as I can figure I will keep sending mine back until it's right. But then I'm like that.

 

good luck

Larry

 Grand Skunk "We go like stink!"

Larry Grand Skunk Railway " We go like Stink! "
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, October 27, 2008 12:40 AM

sprulz
Anyone else had this good a start to Athearn Genisis loco's? 

Yes, every Genesis I've purchased (SD70s, 4-6-6-4, Fs... seems like I'm missing one) have had some sort of problems.  MOST of which are due to the junky MRC electronics they use in them.  I assume the 4-6-6-4 is a great machine but I've not been able to get mine to run since I tried to change the channel number from #3 to something else.  The SD70s have all had warped trucks.  The Fs can't put half of what the Stewart/Kato can.  sigh.  I've stopped purchasing Athearn due to this issue.  I keep hoping they will fix it in the near future.

There have been thread after thread concerning this issue.  If our search engine was working I would say just search for Genesis 4-6-6-4, but it's not. 

Tags: Genesis
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Posted by sprulz on Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:34 PM

Hi,

Thanks for responses and tips from those who posted replies.. I will try these.

Enjoy the week and happy railroading.

 

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Posted by draftingplans on Monday, October 13, 2008 8:41 AM

Sprulz,

I have 2 Genesis SOO Line F7's and so far work just fine on my layout in the last year (NCE DCC). I believe if you would check your manual you may find out the lights turn on and off with F0 but it also says the sound is turned off/on double clicking the F0. Try that and see if your sound lcoo's produce sound. The manual didn't say anything if in DCC / DC mode so presume either one.

Barry

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, October 11, 2008 4:34 PM

There are any number of threads on this forum that warn against the unpredictable nature of the MRC decoders that are in the Athearn units yet people go on buying them anyway. Athearn isn't going to their practice until people stop purchasing the MRC equipped units altogether, citing their dissatisfaction for the product. Now, I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Avoid MRC decoders at all costs, no matter how good the deal looks. They will almost always fail.

I've had two MRC decoders (non-sound) and they both went up in smoke inside of an hour yet I have cheap Bachmann decoders that have been working for over a year with no problems. That should tell a lot about the quality issues.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


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Posted by Last Chance on Saturday, October 11, 2008 2:35 PM

If you are on DCC, try the reset procedure. I think those MRC Decoders take a CV value to reset.

If the one is mute but is powered and pulls with the other, then maybe a speaker problem.

Regarding the engine that does not obey your functions... I would suggest that your decoder may have... issues? MRC decoders are not known for thier good memory.

I encourage you to communicate your issues with the seller of your engines and explore your options towards replacement, repair or.... something else.

I really like Genesis, but analog units without DCC or Sound.

Now excuse me while I go chain my big mouth shut and start the popcorn.

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Athearn Genisis F7 and DCC Issues
Posted by sprulz on Saturday, October 11, 2008 1:48 PM

Today, after a long back order since ordering a set of Athearn Genisis WP F7 loco's we unpacked these today to run on my layout, the SP Southhere in South Africa. These are the silver and orange unit and the green unit. The silver one has no sound! The green one has no ability to adhere to F to F11 commands. The green one does operate sounds in DC mode. Silver is a mute.

Tried re-setting, swapping speakers, POT changes, but no luck.

Going to contact Caboose and Athearn, but from what I am seeing on the forums, we have bought a lemon set.

Also have the SP MT steam loco on order that is to be released soon, but going to cancel this order.

Problem is I can't go down to the shop and get it repaired or replaced.

Anyone else had this good a start to Athearn Genisis loco's? 

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