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DCC and Computer operations

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  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Downingtown PA
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DCC and Computer operations
Posted by Gwen@Downingtown on Sunday, July 20, 2008 10:41 PM
I am planning an N-scale layout - I plan on running multiple trains with schedules and a hidden staging yard. I want to be able to have the layout run on full automated once everything is programmed - what is the best DCC system out there for that? Digitrax seems to be the most recommended in general, but is it the best for computer integration? Any advice on software selection?
Thank you!
Gwen
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Posted by Randall_Roberts on Monday, July 21, 2008 9:42 AM

Digitrax is indeed the most popular line of DCC products.  Though they may not be the most user-friendly.  But for the complexity of what it sounds like you want to do they're probably the best, and NCE would be my second choice.

Here is a link to free DCC software. The Java Model Railroad Interface is an open source project that includes two applications: Decoder Pro and Panel Pro.  Decoder Pro let's you program your locomotives from your computer and save configurations.  Panel Pro allows you to construct virtual layout control panels on your screen.  I think one of them allows scripting to automate your layout. If not you may need a Java programmer, but the JMRI library will keep you from having to start from scratch.

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/download/

To use this software will need to buy an interface for the purpose of connecting your computer and DCC command station. I have a Digitrax system and use the LocoBuffer USB from RR-CirKits

http://www.rr-cirkits.com/ 

Hope this helps. 

Randall Roberts Visit http://modeltrains.about.com Subscribe to the FREE weekly Model Trains newsletter.
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Posted by Stevert on Monday, July 21, 2008 11:30 AM

Gwen,

  Keep in mind that ANY "fully-automated" layout is going to take some serious programming on your part, whether it's writing Jython animation scripts (JMRI) or "programming" more like you'd set up your VCR (RR&Co).  That's because no two layouts are the same, and of course the automation logic depends on just what you're going to automate, and how you're going to automate it.

  With that in mind, I'd agree that Digitrax is probably the best DCC system for what (I believe) you have in mind.  Part of the reason is that the computer interfaces directly with the Digitrax command/throttle buss so the computer sees all that traffic, which is something no other DCC system I'm aware of can provide.  With NCE, for example, the serial interface on the PowerHouse Pro does not echo any throttle buss traffic.  Since your Automation software cannot see that throttle traffic, it's unable to act on it.  You can probably work around that with some creative programming in your Automation software, but why should you have to?

  Also, Digitrax makes their LocoNet Personal Edition publicly available.  And they have Transponding (and have had it for years, while the NMRA waffles about bi-directional DCC).  Finally, there are probably more 3rd-party devices available for LocoNet than for any other DCC system.  Again, depending on your Automation philosophy, one or more of these could be invaluable.

  You may want to check out what Bob Grosh has been doing with Digitrax and JMRI.  I don't think it's the same type of automation that you have in mind, but it gives you an idea of what's possible and may provide some inspiration:  http://tinyurl.com/5kyqdb
 

HTH,
Steve

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Posted by AlienKing on Monday, July 21, 2008 12:01 PM

As far as DCC systems go, Digitrax and ZIMO both offer bi-directional capability.  ZIMO has feedback and a PC connection built in. Digitrax allows you to add feedback with transponding decoders and receivers, and PC connection with a locobuffer, PR3, or an MS-100.

CTI, KAM, and RR&Co offer seperate feedback sub-systems that work with most DCC command stations. All three also offer software to control trains using their hardware.

If you go with either ZIMO or Digitrax with transponding, you will still need software.  You can use JMRI which is free, or buy only the software from one of the other vendors(though I'm not sure if/how well they integrate with the DCC systems feedback capability).

  • Member since
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  • From: Downingtown PA
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Posted by Gwen@Downingtown on Monday, July 21, 2008 10:04 PM
Thanks everyone for the advice - Digitrax will likely be my choice. Thanks also for the various software options. I am not afraid of programming, so I should be OK.
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Posted by MisterBeasley on Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:40 AM

Lenz also has their version of automation.  While you're looking, take a look at what they have, too.  I've got a Lenz DCC system, and I like it, but I don't have my trains automated.  (I do enough of that stuff at work, but that's how I pay for my trains, not how I want to run them.)  I like the big-button throttles that Lenz makes.  That may not be the best reason to choose a DCC system, but it's more important than most people give it credit for.

For those who know about these computer connections - where do they hook up to the DCC system?  I assume they go on the control bus side, so they must be specific to the DCC manufacturer, because if they were on the track bus side, then they would be subject to the NMRA standards and they would all be inter-operable, right?

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by Stevert on Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:27 PM
 MisterBeasley wrote:

For those who know about these computer connections - where do they hook up to the DCC system?  I assume they go on the control bus side, so they must be specific to the DCC manufacturer, because if they were on the track bus side, then they would be subject to the NMRA standards and they would all be inter-operable, right?

  It depends on the DCC system.  Digitrax and Lenz go to the throttle/control buss.  NCE PowerhousePro and Wangrow SystemOne (and I believe EasyDCC as well) connect directly to the command station.  NCE's new USB interface goes to the throttle buss.

  But you are correct in that none of them go to the track buss side - although there are DCC "sniffers" that can read those packets.

Steve

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Posted by gandydancer19 on Tuesday, July 22, 2008 5:02 PM

If you are going with Digitrax, as you seem to indicate, make sure the decoders that you get and install in your locomotives have transponding in them. That allows the computer to track them around the layout through the different blocks. You will also have to use the transponding add on kits to you block detection boards. I suggest that you do some research on the Digitrax web site and study up a little about transponding. Digitrax is the only manufacturer that I know of that is offering built in transponding decoders, so you are going to be locked into using them. And I also don't think that you can add transponding units (if they even make such) to other manufacturers decoders.

You might also want to take a look at www.cti-electronics.com  They make a system that can automate a layout using various boards.  You would have to provide your own DCC system capable of being interfaced with a computer, and one that is on their list.

Elmer.

The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.

(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.

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Posted by Stevert on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 1:31 PM
 gandydancer19 wrote:

If you are going with Digitrax, as you seem to indicate, make sure the decoders that you get and install in your locomotives have transponding in them. That allows the computer to track them around the layout through the different blocks.

All current production Digitrax decoders support Transponding.

 gandydancer19 wrote:

You will also have to use the transponding add on kits to you block detection boards. I suggest that you do some research on the Digitrax web site and study up a little about transponding.

You can start here:  Transponding FAQ

 gandydancer19 wrote:

Digitrax is the only manufacturer that I know of that is offering built in transponding decoders, so you are going to be locked into using them. And I also don't think that you can add transponding units (if they even make such) to other manufacturers decoders.

 

Digitrax makes the TL1 and TF4 function-only decoders.  They both include transponding, and you can piggyback them on any brand of decoder.  No different than adding a sound decoder to a loco already equipped with a motor decoder.  

 gandydancer19 wrote:
 

You might also want to take a look at www.cti-electronics.com  They make a system that can automate a layout using various boards.  You would have to provide your own DCC system capable of being interfaced with a computer, and one that is on their list.

  That's an option, but now you're getting into installing, maintaining, and integrating two different control systems.  Sure, it can be done, but it usually only makes sense for folks who have an investment in a pre-existing control system such as C/MRI and now want to add DCC.  If you're starting from scratch, and a single system has all the abilities you need, why bother with that kind of complexity?

HTH,
Steve

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Posted by ereimer on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:17 PM

a couple of things ...

1) there have been several discusions on the digitrax yahoo group about transponding . users of RR & co (http://www.freiwald.com/) claim the software keeps track of where your trains are without transponding so there may be no need for the extra hardware required to detect transponding decoders . (note : your mileage may vary) . if you're using JMRI you will need the transponding detectors

2) it's possible to use digitrax detection , signalling and turnout control modules without using digitrax as your command station / throttle system  

 

the reason someone might use one manufacturers command station / throttle , and another manufacturers detection / signalling system is to get features that they need / want that aren't available from one source

it's my understanding that either RR & co or JMRI can combine the 2 systems

 

ernie 

  • Member since
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Posted by robvrs on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:30 AM

 Hi Ernie,

 maybe you should have a look at Rocrail:

http://www.rocrail.net

It does support Throttles in a way you not really need the original Command Station.

I use LocoNet for all stationary decoders and another CS for controlling DCC and MM. 

This is my Layout: http://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=plan-f:plan-f-en 

Regards,

Rob.
 

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Posted by MRCProdigyrailroader on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:21 AM

For the control system, Digitrax is what you will need. (I prefer MRC myself, but it can't interface with a computer yet.)

The Master Hand!!! Modeling the modern BNSF and Norfolk Southern... On the same layout!!!

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