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Possible answer to toggle switches for twin coils or others switches

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  • Member since
    June 2008
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Possible answer to toggle switches for twin coils or others switches
Posted by loops52 on Thursday, June 5, 2008 4:58 AM
Hello everyone i am new here.I came across a product that might help out.Its called an electronic turnout switch they are sold in kit form.It also built as a cd unit for twin coils switches, leds could be hooked up also.Here is the link http://www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/751D.HTM
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Posted by gjvjr50 on Friday, June 6, 2008 9:48 PM
Hi I too have seen these and tne price seemed worth a shot I got the one whith one built and 8 or 9 circuit board to build my own like you say looks like cd units that when you flip sw thats all you do  not flip and then push another
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Posted by loops52 on Saturday, June 7, 2008 6:18 AM
I believe now he has them available in kit form 9 boardkit for 39.99 complete with components the shipping is very reseanonable located in canada.If you need components for your boards i think he will just sell those for your boards.
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Posted by tomikawaTT on Saturday, June 7, 2008 11:09 AM

 loops52 wrote:
I believe now he has them available in kit form 9 boardkit for 39.99 complete with components the shipping is very reseanonable located in canada.If you need components for your boards i think he will just sell those for your boards.

If someone will explain to me what this gizmo does that I can't do with 8 cents' worth of machine screws, nuts and washers (hot probe system,) a couple of 10 for a dollar diodes and the contacts on the switch machine, I will listen respectfully - and I promise not to laugh.

Rube Goldberg would love this thing.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - KISS system)

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Posted by UpNorth on Saturday, June 7, 2008 12:16 PM

This gizmo incorparates a capacity discharge (CD) circuit and connections for leds. It is  for those who can not figure out how to build a CD circuit and wire 8 cents worth of machine screws, nuts and washers, diodes to the contacts of double coil switch machines.

I built a CD way back when and never had a momentary push button burnout on it.

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Posted by steamnut on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 6:46 PM
Your 20 cents worth of stuff will NOT provide lighted control panel indicators. This offering is very cost-effective for that purpose.
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Posted by chicochip on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:00 PM

Steamnut,

I think the switch machine contacts that Chuck cited will provide for lighted control panel indicators. Or, maybe I'm missing the point - QUITE POSSIBLE.

 

chicochip

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Posted by jkroft on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:10 PM
OK...  kind-of a tangent topic, but...  I use Peco twin coils, never had a problem with any of them.  They're well built.  I initially bought them because they are cheaper than a Tortise, BUT...  SPDT toggles can indicate turnout position just by looking at if the switch is up or down (in the case of the Tortise).  Twin coils need a momentary...  I used SPDT spring-return-to-center toggles, hence the need for lights on the panel for turnout indication.  So by the time I bought the accessory slide switches, light bulbs, a CDU, lots of extra wiring and a separate power supply for the lights, the cost was at or above a similar setup for the Tortise.  Just go with a Tortise!

"You show me a man with both feet on the ground and I'll show you a man who can't get his pants on." -anonymous

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:18 PM

 steamnut wrote:
Your 20 cents worth of stuff will NOT provide lighted control panel indicators. This offering is very cost-effective for that purpose.

Wanna bet?  The difference is that, by using the contacts on the switch machine I actually get the position of the points, not just the position of the panel control (which may be a critical difference if the machine fails to function for whatever reason.

Actually, I cascade my indicators - the one that's illuminated tells me which track in the yard has been selected.  To top it all, my indicator lamps are 2.5v mini Christmas tree lights that I bought for under 2 cents each (socket included) at a post-Christmas sale some time ago.

I provided a 4-track yard throat with switch machines, control and indicators for about the cost of ONE supergizmo.  Alternate control from another location will add about a buck, plus (salvaged, at no cost to me) wire.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - as inexpensively as possible)

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Posted by chicochip on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:31 PM

Good point, Chuck.

I never really thought about the switch machine or linkage malfunctioning and giving a false indication if the panel lights are controlled separately. Like you, I've used the switch machine contacts for many-many years and, probably like you, I've discovered turnout problems before they cause harm to the rolling stock....not always - but usually.

 

chicochip

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Posted by fwright on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:31 AM

 jkroft wrote:
OK...  kind-of a tangent topic, but...  I use Peco twin coils, never had a problem with any of them.  They're well built.  I initially bought them because they are cheaper than a Tortise, BUT...  SPDT toggles can indicate turnout position just by looking at if the switch is up or down (in the case of the Tortise).  Twin coils need a momentary...  I used SPDT spring-return-to-center toggles, hence the need for lights on the panel for turnout indication.  So by the time I bought the accessory slide switches, light bulbs, a CDU, lots of extra wiring and a separate power supply for the lights, the cost was at or above a similar setup for the Tortise.  Just go with a Tortise!

Another possibility - use a SPDT non-momentary toggle in series with a normally-off pushbutton.  Set the desired throw with the toggle (which can be set up to show alignment of turnout in the layout diagram) and activate with the adjacent push button.

Alternative #2:  use a DPDT non-momentary toggle in series with the normally-off push button.  Use the extra pole on the toggle to run a separate lighting circuit.

I used DPDT slide switches on a mechanical turnout throw to provide both indicating lights and frog power.

just some suggestions

Fred W

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Posted by jkroft on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:00 PM

 fwright wrote:

Another possibility - use a SPDT non-momentary toggle in series with a normally-off pushbutton.  Set the desired throw with the toggle (which can be set up to show alignment of turnout in the layout diagram) and activate with the adjacent push button.

Alternative #2:  use a DPDT non-momentary toggle in series with the normally-off push button.  Use the extra pole on the toggle to run a separate lighting circuit.

 Very ingenious ideas!  Either is much simpler than slide switches.

"You show me a man with both feet on the ground and I'll show you a man who can't get his pants on." -anonymous

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:20 PM
 jkroft wrote:

 fwright wrote:

Another possibility - use a SPDT non-momentary toggle in series with a normally-off pushbutton.  Set the desired throw with the toggle (which can be set up to show alignment of turnout in the layout diagram) and activate with the adjacent push button.

Alternative #2:  use a DPDT non-momentary toggle in series with the normally-off push button.  Use the extra pole on the toggle to run a separate lighting circuit.

 Very ingenious ideas!  Either is much simpler than slide switches.

How can using a switch and a pushbutton to activate a switch machine be simpler than a slide switch that IS the switch machine???

Where the turnout is only controlled from a single location I, too, have used slide switches as manual throws.  Back When, I imbedded them in the layout surface (where they pretended to be relay cases.)  These days, I line them up along the fascia and link them 'underground' with fishing line.

KISS!

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

  • Member since
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  • From: Colorado
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Posted by fwright on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 4:21 PM
 jkroft wrote:

 fwright wrote:

Another possibility - use a SPDT non-momentary toggle in series with a normally-off pushbutton.  Set the desired throw with the toggle (which can be set up to show alignment of turnout in the layout diagram) and activate with the adjacent push button.

Alternative #2:  use a DPDT non-momentary toggle in series with the normally-off push button.  Use the extra pole on the toggle to run a separate lighting circuit.

 Very ingenious ideas!  Either is much simpler than slide switches.

Have to agree with Chuck here.  I was presenting alternatives, not recommendations, and these were not original to me.  My recommended solutions for throwing turnouts (switches):

#1 - manual throw with slide/toggle switch to provide contacts.  Look at the turnout to see which way it is thrown.  Requires walk-around control with reasonable sight lines, but is the ultimate in simplicity and low cost.  Can only control turnout from single location.

#2 - where turnout control from multiple locations is required.  Either twin coil or stall motor machines will work, with twin coil being much simpler conceptually.  Contacts on switch machine are the simplest way to power indicator lights, if you insist on having them.  My theory is that I would rather be watching my train and the track (walk-around control) rather than looking at a bunch of status lights on a control panel.  This is probably my reaction to my world of work with secure (no/limited access to outside world) command centers and piloting helicopters at night.  The last thing I want to do at home is look at status lights, remote monitors, and gauges!

Probe and contact, push buttons, and momentary toggles all work well to control twin coil machines from multiple locations. 

#3 - If you don't have contacts on the switch machine for #2, then the separate toggle/push button is a fairly simple alternative, but requires 2 steps to throw the machine.

#4 - Latching relays can replace contacts (Atlas sells one, as well as electronic parts vendors), and allow twin push buttons, momentary toggles, or probe and contact control from multiple locations to function along with the requisite indicator lights.  As mentioned, electronics are available to accomplish this in silicon instead of a relay with physically moving contacts.

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