Decoder Pro and Interface...are they worth it?

[CSX Robert]

Hi all, i have a question about the circuit that was mentioned on page 2. There are a red and black wire that goes to Loconet and on my Zephyr it shows A and B, does it matter which one goes into which or can i just connect red to A and Black to B? Another question, how do i connect the red and black wires into the Loconet connectors?

thanks

Fanie

First, I want to make sure you understand that this circuit does not connect to Rail A and Rail B(I think you understand that, but I want to make sure).

The easiest way to hook up this circuit is to get a telephone cable with at least four wires. Loconet uses 6 wires, but for this circuit a four wire cable will do fine. I have seen a few two wire telephone cables and these will not work becasue they do not have the correct wires for this circuit. Cut one connector off of the cable and strip the outer insulation back and you should have black, red, green, and yellow wires inside. Attach this circuit to the black and red wires in this cable. You then plug the other end of the cable into either Loconet port(A or B) on the back of the Zephyr.

[fanie]

Hi all, i have a question about the circuit that was mentioned on page 2. There are a red and black wire that goes to Loconet and on my Zephyr it shows A and B, does it matter which one goes into which or can i just connect red to A and Black to B? Another question, how do i connect the red and black wires into the Loconet connectors?

thanks

Fanie 

[garya]

... Until you've used DecoderPro, you just can't appreciate how it so outshines onsey-twosey CV programming with a DCC system handset! 

I absolutely, totally and completely agree with all that is said above.  Having used it for the last few years it is well worth the time and effort to learn it. I appreciate it so much, I donated to JMRI.

Two points:

1. DecoderPro is terrific.  I don't even remember how to program with my system anymore--DecoderPro is so easy to use and so powerful for all the reasons Joe mentioned.
2. I donated to both JMRI and the legal fund.  Go to the JMRI website to learn more: http://jmri.sourceforge.net/k/index.html

 

 

[jfugate]

As a side note, I'm planning to video 3 of the JMRI clinics at the NMRA National in Anaheim, and post them on the web.

I'll likewise be videoing my own two clinics (one on DCC and one on the latest about my layout and other hobby projects) and posting them on the web as well.

I'm hoping the videos of the DCC clinics (especially the JMRI/DecoderPro ones) will be helpful to people. There's nothing like seeing things in action to finally have it "click" in your brain. 

[Stevert]

I have an NCE system and while I love its great user interface, DecoderPro does so many other things so much easier, there's no comparison.

  WooHoo!!  Looks like Joe and I can finally agree on a DCC topic! 

  I use Digitrax, and while I don't find programming with the DT400 to be difficult, Joe hit the nail on the head with the above statement.

  He also did a nice job of summing up how easy it is to perform useful programming tasks that as far as I know, can't be done natively with any DCC system.  

   The only nit I have with Joe's description is that I don't think he stressed enough how well laid out and easy to use the various screens are.  And not just "plain english", but a number of other languages as well thanks to JMRI's contributors.

  And while it may be a little off-topic for this thread, when you also consider how powerful PanelPro, the other part of JMRI, is - Wow!

  So unless your particular DCC system's computer interface is priced way out of line (MRC, are you listening?), and maybe even then, my opinion is Yes, it's well worth it!

Steve

[UpNorth]

... Until you've used DecoderPro, you just can't appreciate how it so outshines onsey-twosey CV programming with a DCC system handset! 

I absolutely, totally and completely agree with all that is said above.  Having used it for the last few years it is well worth the time and effort to learn it. I appreciate it so much, I donated to JMRI.

[UpNorth]

  You're actually a little confused yourself! 

 The MS100 isn't a stand-alone programmer.  It's an interface that allows communication between a computer and a LocoNet.

  In other words, the MS100 allows the computer to "talk" to the command station that's actually doing the programming.

HTH,
Steve
 

Wrong yes, confused no !...  You are quite right, my mistake. I did not double check.

The PR-1, PR-2 are/were the stand alone ones. Now we wait for the PR-3 which should do both; MS-100 and PR-2.

http://www.digitrax.com/ftp/PR3%20Programmerweb.pdf

[jfugate]

"Decoder Pro and Interface...are they worth it?"

If you have an NCE power pro DCC system, don't bother.  IMO The NCE is so easy to use it would be harder learning how to use Decoder Pro.

Gandy, doesn't sound like you've ever used DecoderPro ...

I have an NCE system and while I love its great user interface, DecoderPro does so many other things so much easier, there's no comparison.

I can save ALL the CV settings from ALL my decoders to my PC and recall them in a few seconds with a few mouse clicks. If I ever need to completely reset a decoder back to my saved settings, it's a couple of mouse clicks and then in about 30 seconds ALL my settings are restored. Can't do that with any DCC system, even NCE.

If I install a similar decoder in another loco, I can copy the settings from another decoder in my fleet and in less than 60 seconds, voila! The new decoder has all the CV settings I like.  Try doing that with NCE.

If I'm speed matching two locos, with DecoderPro, I can program on the main and bring up the two loco speed panels side by side. Speed matching locos doesn't get any simpler!

If I can't remember what CV does what (especially true for sound decoders that can have 50+ CV settings), not a problem. DecoderPro labels the settings in plain english (Bell volume, not CV161), and gives me a slider to adjust the volume. 

DecoderPro just gives you so much power and makes things so point and click easy that I almost never do straight throttle handset programming any more. Until you've used DecoderPro, you just can't appreciate how it so outshines onsey-twosey CV programming with a DCC system handset! 

[gandydancer19]

"Decoder Pro and Interface...are they worth it?"

If you have an NCE power pro DCC system, don't bother.  IMO The NCE is so easy to use it would be harder learning how to use Decoder Pro.

[Stevert]

No you can not use DecoderPro and interface with any DC controler but you  can use DecoderPro with the Digitrax MS-100 or PR-2 as  they are stand alone programmers that can be used by DecoderPro.

  You're actually a little confused yourself! 

 The MS100 isn't a stand-alone programmer.  It's an interface that allows communication between a computer and a LocoNet.

  In other words, the MS100 allows the computer to "talk" to the command station that's actually doing the programming.

HTH,
Steve
 

[UpNorth]

Gentalmen

    I have a question for you, I have a walthers proto-2000 steam loco, i use the bli/atlas engineer to run the DC sounds, it also has dcc, but i think i would have to change the sound decoder to dcc, right?, but my question is can you use the decoder pro and interface with DC, i'm now trying to decide what DCC system that i want to use, i've couple of broadway engines with dc sound, on order, i'll just keep reading the threads on dcc systems, which ones are good and ones that are not so good.

                                            thanks for your help steam618lover1  Earl

I'm affraid you are a little confused.  You are not running DC sounds via the Quantum/Atlas Engineer,  you are running DCC sounds. You will not be required to replace any decoder because they are all ready DCC.  DCC can run on DC, you simply don't mave much control of the decoder (unless you get the Quantum Engineer as you did)

No you can not use DecoderPro and interface with any DC controler but you  can use DecoderPro with the Digitrax MS-100 or PR-2 as  they are stand alone programmers that can be used by DecoderPro. 

Once you have made your mind up on which DCC system you purchase, then look into the interface required and buy it. 

[pcman43]

If you have any experience with computers you shouldn't have any trouble getting Decoder Pro to work it is really easy to use. The great thing about it is you can save all your decoder info and redo them if something happens to their programming. It sure beats trying to speed match two locos then having a decoder go out and trying to remember what you had it set at. And after you get all your decoders programmed you can print out the settings for future reference work. Decoder Pro also allows you to clear the internal working slots on your DCC system so you do not run out of working space, especially on digitrax systems. You can even get lazy and run your trains from the desktop of your computer which is kinda cool.

[steam618lover1]

Gentalmen

    I have a question for you, I have a walthers proto-2000 steam loco, i use the bli/atlas engineer to run the DC sounds, it also has dcc, but i think i would have to change the sound decoder to dcc, right?, but my question is can you use the decoder pro and interface with DC, i'm now trying to decide what DCC system that i want to use, i've couple of broadway engines with dc sound, on order, i'll just keep reading the threads on dcc systems, which ones are good and ones that are not so good.

                                            thanks for your help steam618lover1  Earl

[CSX Robert]

If all you want to do with the PC is program your decoders, then yes, that might be an acceptable solution, but you would not be able to use the PC for railroad functions, such as dispatching or even an extra throttle. Also, $110 is still kind of pricey considering a Locobuffer is less than $70, an MS100(if you kind find one) is less than $40, and I hooked up my Zephyr with a $5 home-built circuit.

Would you be willing to share the design of your $5 circuit to hook up the Zephyr?

 Thanks,

Paul

I found it at the bottom of this page:http://www.teamdigital1.com/support_tools.html 

[bearlover2001]

I ususally just read forums and never join in and offer my experience, but this thread interested me greatly. I have an NCE Power Pro wireless that I bought several years ago. Shortly after buying the NCS I ran across the JMRI website. I downloaded the program and have had a great experience ever since. If you can navigate any Windows OS you can use Decoder Pro without any problems. IMO if more modelers, dealers and manufacturers would support this product, DCC would be more acceptable to the hobby. Even model railroad publications seem to want to make DCC more complicated than it really is. When you start discussing CV this and CV that you are going to scare people off. I gave myself a migraine headache trying to learn hexa decimal unnecessarily. Decoder Pro has the best explanation of setting low speed and high speed locomative settings I have come across.

I use Soundtraxx decoders and have had only one problem with them and that was a self inflicted problem with a soldering iron. They repaired it for a very reasonable price and I was on the rails in no time.

Hope this helps with your decision.

[Apennsyrrfan]

If all you want to do with the PC is program your decoders, then yes, that might be an acceptable solution, but you would not be able to use the PC for railroad functions, such as dispatching or even an extra throttle. Also, $110 is still kind of pricey considering a Locobuffer is less than $70, an MS100(if you kind find one) is less than $40, and I hooked up my Zephyr with a $5 home-built circuit.

Would you be willing to share the design of your $5 circuit to hook up the Zephyr?

 Thanks,

Paul

[bawbyk]

Using a SPROG USB device you do not need a command station attached to the programming track.

My computer and my layout are on different floors of the house.  I set the decoder CV's at the computer with DecoderPRo and the SPROG. DecoderPro has a 'throttle' which allows me to test the loco on a small programming track attached to the SPROG.

Google SPROG to find the US seller.

Bob

[jwils1]

The MSRP of the MRC connection is just crazy.  It costs more than the PA itself!

David B

Actually the Prodigy Advance Squared MSRP is $359.98 whereas the complete computer interface MSRP is $269.98.  Of course street prices are always much lower than the MSRP.

The wireless interface units have been listed on the MRC website for quite awhile.  With all of the communication by MRC users to MRC (at MRC's request), maybe the final product will be much different.  But of course we are all just speculating on this subject and only time will tell. 

[CSX Robert]

Acutally, it is up to the kind folks at JMRI to allow compatability with the new MRC interface. The MSRP of the MRC connection is just crazy. It costs more than the PA itself!

David B

Actually, I think it is more dependant on MRC making the communication protocol available to JMRI. Someone who works for MRC has actually asked what users want in the PC interface software on the Yahoo MRC group. The overwhelming response was to make it compatible with JMRI software, so who knows, maybe they will listen to their users and do it(I wouldn't bet on it, but maybe).

If you go to MRC's web site you will find two flavors of computer interfaces listed: wireless ($180) and full kit ($270).

Both of these seem to be on the pricey side unless they're also including some killer software with it...

My understanding is the $180 interface is for just the PC side of it if you already have the wireless conversion or the wireless base station, and the $270 kit includes the wireless transceiver for the base station. What I don't understand is why wouldn't they do a lower cost wired version, especially since one of MRC's saling points is low cost. Personally, I don't see any need for the PC interface to be wireless in most circumstances since you would want to the PC in the same room as the layout(I can see how it could be handy for remote dispatching), and you're not likely going to be walking around the room carrying your PC like you would a wireless throttle.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - but it appears that a SPROG-2 unit (about $110) connected via a DPDT switch (PA on the other switch position) would be a reasonable work-around to use Decoder Pro with the Prodigy Advance DCC systems for a lot less money. Use the SPROG and Decoder Pro to set up/program your locomotives, and use the PA to operate the layout.

just a thought - I've yet to try it personally.

Fred W

If all you want to do with the PC is program your decoders, then yes, that might be an acceptable solution, but you would not be able to use the PC for railroad functions, such as dispatching or even an extra throttle. Also, $110 is still kind of pricey considering a Locobuffer is less than $70, an MS100(if you kind find one) is less than $40, and I hooked up my Zephyr with a $5 home-built circuit.

[jwils1]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - but it appears that a SPROG-2 unit (about $110) connected via a DPDT switch (PA on the other switch position) would be a reasonable work-around to use Decoder Pro with the Prodigy Advance DCC systems for a lot less money.  Use the SPROG and Decoder Pro to set up/program your locomotives, and use the PA to operate the layout.

just a thought - I've yet to try it personally.

Fred W

How does SPOG-2 work?  Can you program on the main with more than one loco moving for speed matching?

[fwright]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - but it appears that a SPROG-2 unit (about $110) connected via a DPDT switch (PA on the other switch position) would be a reasonable work-around to use Decoder Pro with the Prodigy Advance DCC systems for a lot less money.  Use the SPROG and Decoder Pro to set up/program your locomotives, and use the PA to operate the layout.

just a thought - I've yet to try it personally.

Fred W

[jfugate]

If you go to MRC's web site you will find two flavors of computer interfaces listed: wireless ($180) and full kit ($270).

Both of these seem to be on the pricey side unless they're also including some killer software with it. I sure hope they don't write DecoderPro out of the picture ... in today's market, going proprietary is a sure way to cut your market share way down. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If they're not going proprietary in some fashion, then their prices seem out of line with what the other vendors are charging. And if they are going proprietary, they'll have to convince us that forking over another $100 - $200 for a computer interface from them buys you something extra you don't get from any other vendor.

I hope I'm just being paranoid, but MRC's approach to the DCC market with some of their products bothers me.

First, we have their decoders, which they totally lowballed on and almost everyone I talk to reports MRC decoders fail very early, are quirky and just don't hold up. I've also heard that MRC's response to people who contact them is "hey, it's just a cheap decoder". Anytime a vendor feels it's okay to make and sell junk, that bothers me.

Now we have the way things are shaping up with their computer interface. I hope I'm wrong, but it feels an awful lot like bait and switch -- get you to buy their system by pricing it very competively -- but once you're hooked, make you pay extra for accessories. 

Like I said, I hope I'm just being paranoid and this all turns out to have a happy ending. 

[jwils1]

I use an MRC Prodigy Advance control system, I heard a while back that MRC was going to introduce an interface with this control system to enable the use of the Decoder Pro software. Is this a false rumor or does anyone have any  factual information on it?

I use the LokSound and now, the QSI Revolution (sound decoder on order) interface and CV manager software, this is great stuff, Decoder Pro would round out the package.

Chris

I talked to MRC last week and they said that their computer interface is under development and testing but gave no indication as to when it will be available.  They will definitely have one but we don't know when.

I'm using MRC wireless and really miss Decoder Pro.  I've used it in the past with other systems and it's hard to be without it.  I still use it but have to manually transfer results by programming them into the CVs one at a time.  The main problem is speed matching.  It is extremely tedious and time consuming with certain decoders.  I'm having a terrible time matching an Atlas supplied decoder (no V5 or V6) with a Digitrax.  With Decoder Pro it would be much easier.

The thing I'm wondering about is what type of interface MRC will end up with.  Their website says it's wireless but they have never indicated if it will be compatible with Decoder Pro or whether they are developing their own program.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see but I sure hope it comes soon.

[RDG1519]

I use an MRC Prodigy Advance control system, I heard a while back that MRC was going to introduce an interface with this control system to enable the use of the Decoder Pro software. Is this a false rumor or does anyone have any  factual information on it?

I use the LokSound and now, the QSI Revolution (sound decoder on order) interface and CV manager software, this is great stuff, Decoder Pro would round out the package.

Chris

[betamax]

It is worth it.

Last night I tweaked the sound settings on a Tsunami equipped locomotive in operations mode. Just ran it around the loop an changed settings to get the sound the way I liked it.

You sit in front of the computer, adjust settings, and then write them. You can adjust the throttle to see the effect on the whistle, or the chuff when you change speed.

Sure beats having to look in the manual to find the CV, and then spend the time and effort to change them manually.

[jfugate]

As a side note, Does the computer and interface HAVE to be near the layout? I only have a desktop and it  is 20 feet from the nearest track.

I have read David Bedards thread about this and am still in the dark

The NCE system uses a standard serial data cable, which can go up to 50 feet. If your computer has a USB port, you can run USB with an powered extender up to 150 feet, then put the USB to serial adapter on the other end and go another 50 feet with the serial cable -- giving you a total of 200 feet.

Or you can put a laptop near your command system connected with a serial cable, and then remote desktop in to the laptop from the other side of the planet through a secure VPN connection over the internet, if you really want to get ridiculous.

The point is, once you move to programming your decoders on a PC, it's literally possible to program decoders on your layout from anywhere you want in or outside your layout room -- we have the technology!

[Randall_Roberts]

Are they worth it?  Decoder Pro is free (unless you donate to help the JMRI defense fund) and the interfaces are usually cheap.

And for that price you can create a database of your locos with all of their CV settings on your computer, program your throttle response curves from your PC and, I believe you can script operations though I haven't investigated this aspect.

Are they worth it?  In a word, yes.

Best! 

[jbinkley60]

As a side note, Does the computer and interface HAVE to be near the layout? I only have a desktop and it  is 20 feet from the nearest track.

I have read David Bedards thread about this and am still in the dark

That depends upon your DCC system.  With Digitrax and Loconet, I have mine about 50' away (length of cable).  I used Cat5 cable and crimped my own wnds.  I'll let one of the NCE owners comment on how NCE does it.

 

[Blind Bruce]

As a side note, Does the computer and interface HAVE to be near the layout? I only have a desktop and it  is 20 feet from the nearest track.

I have read David Bedards thread about this and am still in the dark