I need to pick some brains here and can't think of a better spot to do it. Being one of those people that cringe at the thought of playing around with electricity, I have shyed away from wiring for far too long. Now that I am ready to build my layout, I need some really general information on wiring all together, so as new as I am to the hobby, please be gentle.
Starting from the top of my list of 'how to's'; When running the buss under the main layout, where does this buss plug into? (I know...sounds stupid, but trust me - I have no idea).
I know which gauge wires I should be using for both the buss and the feeders for my DCC layout (28x42' layout), but I'm looking for some information on where these buss wires attach to. How many busses would you recommend? (I'm planning on using one for accessories, signals, etc. and one for the track). Will that be enough?
Do you recommend additional power sources and boosters? I plan on running no more than 4-5 locos max with sound decoders at any given time.
There is a ton of great info in these forums and my pen has been working overtime writing it all down. Wiring is my biggest concern - especially where turnouts are concerned, but I'm slowly trying to do my homework and research in learning this stuff.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!! Greatly!
667CDP wrote:Starting from the top of my list of 'how to's'; When running the buss under the main layout, where does this buss plug into? (I know...sounds stupid, but trust me - I have no idea).
Wow, you really are starting from scratch, aren't you?
Unfortunately, it's not just a list of questions and straightforward answers. Very often, there are multiple ways to accomplish the same thing, and the choice comes down to preferences.
Other times, there may be specific reasons, not obvious to the casual observer, for doing something one way as opposed to another.
The best advice I can give you is to read, learn, and study about DCC in general, it's various components, what they do, and (in very general terms) how they work.
For example, the purpose of that buss is to get the current from the DCC booster(s) to the tracks. Knowing that, it makes sense that it would "plug into" the booster(s) to receive the current, and into the track, usually at multiple locations, to distribute that current.
But if your layout is 28x42, you'll probably want multiple power districts, and signals require detection. Both of those factors may affect the design and implementation of that buss, as would running another buss for accessories.
Plus, 4-5 N-scale locos or 4-5 G-scale locos? That answer, as well as the specific DCC system you'll be using, will most likely affect how many boosters you need, which may also alter the buss configuration.
Again, this is not to make your head spin, but rather to let you know you have a bit of a learning curve ahead of you. To help you out with that learning curve, here's a link to one excellent source of DCC wiring info: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/wirefordcc_toc.htm
HTH & Good luck!Steve
Thanks Steve,
I'll take your advice and give that article a good read over. With so much information out there, there is definately a lot to learn, but certainly something to look forward to. I appreciate your advice.
I'm off to read some more now!
667CDP wrote: I know which gauge wires I should be using for both the buss and the feeders for my DCC layout (28x42' layout), but I'm looking for some information on where these buss wires attach to. How many busses would you recommend? (I'm planning on using one for accessories, signals, etc. and one for the track). Will that be enough?
The number and length of DCC power buses is totally dependent on the track layout. One school of thought says to run the bus directly under the track. Depending on the track plan that can be simple but self defeating. Why put a loop into a bus when a direct connection would be much better? Another school of thought is to keep the bus as direct and to the point as possible. That can make the feeders longer, and can get confusing especially if power districts cross one another.
Signals wow - Signals are a major thing even for experienced people. The problems come on two fronts at the same time. There is the matter of the signals themselves, and there is the detection issue. It should be realized a twin-wire-bus and signalling don't go together real well. To centralize the dectectors one of those bus wires has to be sub-bused. The alternate is to scatter the occupancy detectors all over the layout right next to the piece of track they are detecting. That in turn requires a whole lot more "signalling" wire.
Actually problems on three fronts.
Because to get your signals to work with detection, the interface is usually via a computer with a program that has to be customized to do what you want it to. So now you are into some mild programming.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Thanks for the information folks.
Based on your feedback and much of the reading I have been doing, I do agree that it's probably going to be smart for me to redesign my trackplan and start small. Atleast from there, once I get a grasp on some of the more basic concepts, then I can expand from there.
Thanks folks!
It is relatively simple to add to a well-dseigned layout in the first place. So, maybe figure out how to modularize your layout so that you can build a section of it to learn on, and then simply add and make the wiring and powering changes as you go along. It won't be a big deal at all...unless you paint yourself into a corner right from the start.
Therefore, if you have what you feel is a "golly" layout that fills your dreams, and you have the space and resources for it, split it up into manageable sections and start with one that is relatively easy and straighforward in most respects. Once you cut your teeth, you'll find yourself eager to continue on with your plan, you'll have lots to do, and the great benefit is that you'll be able to apply all your new skills and lessons-learned to each successive section.
It doesn't get much better.
The bummer is that when you have the last essentially completed, you'll probably want to go back and fix or redo the first. Darn, eh.
Don't jump into a 42x28 layout with less than basic electrical knowledge. If your going with DCC control, this is a great site to start with. http://www.wiringfordcc.com/
667CDP wrote:Thanks Steve, I'll take your advice and give that article a good read over. With so much information out there, there is definately a lot to learn, but certainly something to look forward to. I appreciate your advice.I'm off to read some more now!
Unfortunately, Allan G's Wiring for DCC site is not for the faint hearted, so I don't recommend it for newcomers like yourself with the most basic wiring questions. If you start reading Allan G's site, your eyes are going to cross in pretty short order.
Your best bet is to go pick up Kalmbach's Basic Wiring for Model Railroaders book by Rick Selby ($14). It has lots of diagams and photos to explain things in simple terms.
The bottom line is you need to do your homework, plain and simple. There's just too much you don't know and you really need an entire course in Model Railroad wiring to get you up to speed.
Get the book and read it, then come on here with questions about a concept or two that you didn't quite get from the book and we can help clarify it for you.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
Also, I don't recommend "newbie" modelers start out trying to build a monster dream layout -- that's a recipe for certain failure.
The problem is you don't know what you don't know -- you have no idea with which to gauge the reality of doing such a mammoth project -- and you don't yet have the skills needed to achieve it.
Better is to build a small test bed layout -- something that you think you maybe could complete in a year. Plan to do it all ... do a track plan, build the benchwork for it, build roadbed and lay track, wire it, get a DCC system installed and operating, do the scenery and structure work -- and get it to a finished level of completion, all within a year.
After the year is up, did you make it? Or is it still very unfinished? Did you get stuck somewhere, lose interest, or run out of funds? Embarking on this year-long project with the intention of learning the skills needed to do your dream pike will be time well spent. And plan to throw this first test bed layout away.
Consider -- which would you rather do: have all your screwups and learnings be on your dream pike, or on something you intend to just learn on? I know my answer, that's why my HO Siskiyou Line dream layout is my 5th layout. All the other previous layouts were test bed layouts where I tried out various techniques and made my difficult-to-rectify mistakes.
Only with this level of experience under your belt, can you realistically plan a large layout project with a reasonable chance of success.
To be perfectly honest, when I embarked on the planning for my dream layout, I had literally no idea as to what was involved in planning and executing such a feat. However, as I have read through this site and some of the various books I have picked up over the last few weeks, my interest has grown even more intensely, and I am looking very forward to beginning my layout.
I am now in the midst of re-planning everything (not from scratch), but simply from taking a small section of my 'dream layout', and beginning small as many of you have advised in your posts. Thanks Joe for the sound advice as well. I think my eyes were bigger than my skills and abilities led me to believe, and as such, the learning curve is one that I am certainly going to enjoy. The beauty of this hobby is that the learning curve never seems to end, and with a myriad of different exciting possibilities and products available to suit anyone's imagination, this is going to be the beginning of something truly fun and exciting.
Thanks again to all of the folks that have posted sound advice and responses here. You've been great help (and probably my saving grace) more than you know!
667CDP wrote:To be perfectly honest, when I embarked on the planning for my dream layout, I had literally no idea as to what was involved in planning and executing such a feat. However, as I have read through this site and some of the various books I have picked up over the last few weeks, my interest has grown even more intensely, and I am looking very forward to beginning my layout.I am now in the midst of re-planning everything (not from scratch), but simply from taking a small section of my 'dream layout', and beginning small as many of you have advised in your posts. Thanks Joe for the sound advice as well. I think my eyes were bigger than my skills and abilities led me to believe, and as such, the learning curve is one that I am certainly going to enjoy. The beauty of this hobby is that the learning curve never seems to end, and with a myriad of different exciting possibilities and products available to suit anyone's imagination, this is going to be the beginning of something truly fun and exciting.Thanks again to all of the folks that have posted sound advice and responses here. You've been great help (and probably my saving grace) more than you know!
It sounds like you are going to get off on the right foot! Looking forward to hearing how the layout is coming along. Have fun with it!
My tip that a friend told me is mark your wires. It'll be easier to trace problems with them marked.
~Justin
Modeling New Haven despite what his user name says...