Hi.
I've been playing around with DCC since I got in to the hobby two years ago. I have a Roco lokmaus system. It's a very limited system and I do need to upgrade it after the next layout room is completed. So, I'm beginning the process of searching for what would be the most suitable system for me.
My requirements are the following.
* Easy to use
* Easy to hook up to the JMRI Decoder Pro software. I'm not interested in programing decoders without the use of such a system. If there is another easy program that would be interesting to. It's Joe Fugates excellent Dvds which have inspired me to look at this program.
* Wireless throttles. This is a must. I plan to walk around the layout.
* Automatic reverse modules easy to use. Preferably without the need for a separate booster just for that.
* I will need 5 amps boosters.
* Cheap additional boosters are a plus
* Price? Cheap is nice. But considering that this is a one time buy rather then engine and cars that I buy many of price is less important then the above criteria(within reason)
So any help would be highly appreciated.
Each camp will take sides on the question. I'm from the Digitrax camp. I have not used anything but Digitrax so I am bias.
Easy of use ?... Once you have worked with ANY system it general becomes easy to use. First few weeks, all systems are jibberish, till you absorbe it.
JMRI is free. That should be enought to convince you that this is the route to go. Excellent support either here or on Yahoo.com JMRI support site. DecoderPro and PanelPro are excellent tools. With a Locobuffer, either USB or serial it is simple matter to speak to Loconet and the Digitrax command stations. Via JMRI you will have programming but also the possibility of getting layout control (turnouts, signals), CTC panel for a dispatcher and if desired automation.
5 AMP is what the DCS100 gives you. Boosters could be DB150. You can get walk around, radio or IR throttles as an option. Digitrax sells automatic reverse loop controlers and the boosters can be setup for auto-reverse.
UpNorth wrote: JMRI is free. That should be enought to convince you that this is the route to go. Excellent support either here or on Yahoo.com JMRI support site. DecoderPro and PanelPro are excellent tools. With a Locobuffer, either USB or serial it is simple matter to speak to Loconet and the Digitrax command stations. Via JMRI you will have programming but also the possibility of getting layout control (turnouts, signals), CTC panel for a dispatcher and if desired automation.
Can you connect JMRI through the USB on the computer? In the video I watched you had to use a serial post? Considering the fact that no modern computer have them I would prefer using the USB obviously rather then using a converter?
What do the wireless throttles cost? Are their any specific throttles that I should look for or is there no options?
I'm really clueless about both Digitrax and NCE which are the two systems I've been most interested in.
Magnus
You might want to check out the radio frequencies each uses for wireless. Such use of those frequencies may or may not be legal in Sweden. It could be a make-or-break deal for one or the other.
Also make sure the system you choose can handle your 220V/50Hz power. Even with a correct voltage power supply, some systems might not like the 50Hz.
Another consideration: At present, Digitrax wireless requires plugging in to acquire/dispatch a locomotive because its radio is one-way (simplex). NCE is duplex. The inconvenience or safety feature of having to plug in to acquire would be based on your circumstances.
If neither Digitrax or NCE wireless will work in your situation, take a look at MRC Prodigy Advance2 wireless. It uses freqs in the 400 MHz band, and is another good wireless system. It does not have a computer interface at present, and the promised one is quite expensive. A work-around would be using a SPROG independent interface (which works with JMRI/Decoder Pro but independent of your DCC system) for your programming and testing.
hope this helps
Fred W
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
As others have suggested, either a Digitrax or NCE system sounds like what you need to consider. I've used both and will present the NCE prespective. For what you want you need to consider the full Powerhouse Pro system
Easy to use - the ProCab is very easy to use and understand. The system menus walk you through everything step by step using clear, easy to understand messages without needing to know cryptic codes or abbreviations.
Easy to hook up to JMRI. The PHP comes with a built in RS232 serial port. All you need to do is connect the command station to a computer via the computers serial port. Setting up JMRI to communicate to the PHP is simple and easy. Beyond the serial cable no additional hardware components are required.
Wirelees Throttles - The PHP is a full duplex system while the Digitrax system is a simplex, one way system. NCE continues to make improvements in their wireless system and have recently introduced Rev3 which is supposed to improve signal strength.
Automatic reverse modules are not DCC system dependent. based on most reviews, the PSX-AR modules is tops on the market. No separate system booster is required.
Additional 5 amp boosters - NCE boosters for the PHP are 5 amp boosters. They are easy to hook up - simply daisy chain to the command station; no extra switches or CVs to program.
You can actually use other manufacturers' boosters with NCE. The NCE PHP manual actually provides a diagram on how to wire in a Digitrax booster to work with NCE. I believe Easy DCC makes a 'universal' booster.
You correct in not letting price be the determinative factor since this should be a one time buy. Consider it an investment that you will have a use for a long period of time.
Lillen wrote:Can you connect JMRI through the USB on the computer? In the video I watched you had to use a serial post? Considering the fact that no modern computer have them I would prefer using the USB obviously rather then using a converter?Magnus
My single computer (Windows XP) has serial and 7 USB ports and is attached to the layout via 2 Locobuffers. A serial Locobuffer talks to Loconet and a Digitrax DCS100. The USB Locobuffer talks to my Zephyr and the programming track. JMRI DecoderPro talks to the USB locobuffer, PanelPro talks to the layout via serial Locobuffer. I do it this way because the DCS100 has issues programming certain decoders.
Marc
jktrains wrote: As others have suggested, either a Digitrax or NCE system sounds like what you need to consider. I've used both and will present the NCE prespective. For what you want you need to consider the full Powerhouse Pro systemEasy to use - the ProCab is very easy to use and understand. The system menus walk you through everything step by step using clear, easy to understand messages without needing to know cryptic codes or abbreviations.Easy to hook up to JMRI. The PHP comes with a built in RS232 serial port. All you need to do is connect the command station to a computer via the computers serial port. Setting up JMRI to communicate to the PHP is simple and easy. Beyond the serial cable no additional hardware components are required.Wirelees Throttles - The PHP is a full duplex system while the Digitrax system is a simplex, one way system. NCE continues to make improvements in their wireless system and have recently introduced Rev3 which is supposed to improve signal strength.Automatic reverse modules are not DCC system dependent. based on most reviews, the PSX-AR modules is tops on the market. No separate system booster is required.Additional 5 amp boosters - NCE boosters for the PHP are 5 amp boosters. They are easy to hook up - simply daisy chain to the command station; no extra switches or CVs to program.You can actually use other manufacturers' boosters with NCE. The NCE PHP manual actually provides a diagram on how to wire in a Digitrax booster to work with NCE. I believe Easy DCC makes a 'universal' booster.You correct in not letting price be the determinative factor since this should be a one time buy. Consider it an investment that you will have a use for a long period of time.
Would this be something that you recommend?
http://029ebf1.netsolstores.com/powerhouseproradiocontrol5amp.aspx
I looked at Walthers but couldn't find any reverse modules?
Would these be the boosters I should get?
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/524-3
Anyone who knows of what power supply that should match it and be viable in Europe Sweden, basically I got 230 Volts. I like to order everything in one go rather then having it sent from several suppliers.
I have NCE at home.(USA) You being in Sweeden might consider a Lenz set 100 and CVP wireless controler and throttles. Thats what my club uses for the portable modules. The big plus for you is Lenz comes from your side of the pond. The Lenz system is fairly easy to use and simple to hook up and almost bullet proof. The CVP throttles are easy to use and very durable. We get about four to five train shows on a set of batteries in the throttles. Lenz also has a box that uses a cordless phone for a throttle.
Just another option for you.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
fwright wrote: Another consideration: At present, Digitrax wireless requires plugging in to acquire/dispatch a locomotive because its radio is one-way (simplex). NCE is duplex. The inconvenience or safety feature of having to plug in to acquire would be based on your circumstances.
Just to correct the statement.
Digitrax IR/R throttles can only acquire a locomotive when pluged in to Loconet (tethered).
The DT100IR/R and DT400IR/R can release the loco while untethered. This is the default for the DT100. This can be changed on the DT400 who's untethered default state is no loco release.
From Digitrax, DT100 :
" When working untethered with an active address in the LCD display, if the SEL/SET key is pressed the locomotive address will immediately be released as common in the system and that throttle will become inactive. To re-select this locomotive you will then need to reconnect to the LocoNet. The DT100IR will automatically reselect that locomotive when the DT100IR is connected to the network providing that the status of that locomotive remains in common "
From Digitrax, DT400 :
" DT400/R's are shipped from the factory with tetherless release disabled. This prevents you from accidentally touching the LOCO Key and entering address selection while you are running your throttle in tetherless mode. DT400 can be set up to allow locos to be released from the throttle when it is in tetherless mode (IR or radio) by setting DT400 Option #3 according to the following table. " (table omitted Marc)
Consisting is another matter thow. You can not release or brake a consist while untethered.
locoi1sa wrote: Magnus I have NCE at home.(USA) You being in Sweeden might consider a Lenz set 100 and CVP wireless controler and throttles. Thats what my club uses for the portable modules. The big plus for you is Lenz comes from your side of the pond. The Lenz system is fairly easy to use and simple to hook up and almost bullet proof. The CVP throttles are easy to use and very durable. We get about four to five train shows on a set of batteries in the throttles. Lenz also has a box that uses a cordless phone for a throttle. Just another option for you. Pete
I've been very interested in the Lenz system before since it is very common around here. But I've asked around and no one seems to know anything about wireless control. Where can I get these CVP throttles? I've never heard of them.
The NCE system would cost me just a bit more then the lenz system in it's basic state so their is not to much to bother with that. But considering how common Lenz is here it would be a huge advantage. Thanks for telling me about that. But do you got any links to those throttles?
Magnus, I am a big time NCE user, and have been since 1998. Before that I used a non DCC command system called Dynatrol. Now before you say, "certainly you are biased to NCE", let me tell you, I am. BUT! The one thing that has been a downside for me with NCE is not having other NCE users in my area,(Kansas City), at least that I know of. I can't just have someone come over, I can't sit down on the user's group for NCE and get all the answers I need, it is Lone Ranger time. I almost shudder each time I boot the system up. The one person who has helped the most is a guy in Australia. He even phoned me one time, and we talked a problem through taking about an hour.
So the common system, Lenz, might be best for your circumstances. Just something to mull over.
Bob
Try www.cvpusa.com
You have to buy directly from them. They have a contact us link.
Hi Bapou,
When I started with DCC i looked at many systems. I finally settled on the Digitrax Chief because of its apparent future proof design, and unlike the Empire Builder you can read AND write CV's. Here in the UK Digitrax is the only system that has never put out software upgrades since I bought my system 3 years ago. The other feature I like is two throttles and readouts on one handset, and a short circuit does not mean a complete shutdown and restart.
Hope this helps,
ukrailroader Life's too short to spend wiring.
Magnus-
One thing to be aware of is that the radio throttles currently offered by CVP, Digitrax and Lenz operate in the 900MHz frequency range and are not licensed for use in Europe. This is why Lenz' wireless solution has been to adapt cordless telephones and why Bachmann (in their coming Dynamis product) and Digitrax offer infrared wireless as an option.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
fmilhaupt wrote: Magnus-One thing to be aware of is that the radio throttles currently offered by CVP, Digitrax and Lenz operate in the 900MHz frequency range and are not licensed for use in Europe. This is why Lenz' wireless solution has been to adapt cordless telephones and why Bachmann (in their coming Dynamis product) and Digitrax offer infrared wireless as an option.
Hi, thanks for the info. That might be helpful!
I don't think it will cause a problem though. I live out in the stick so it's impossible for me to interfere anything for anyone. What other kind of product would use this intervall? I lnow that my alarm is not hooked up to that frequency and that is just about what I could mess with? The phones perhaps? Otherwise I have no cordless transmitions.
But I should check to be certain.
What is this Lenz solution, I have not seen it. Anyone got a link?
As have been stated previously, non of the US- radio equipped systems are legal to export to Sweden. Personally as a Digitrax user, I'm waiting for their new wireless system wich will be legal in Europe. There is even a rumour that it will be released in Europe before the US-release.
ROCO will release a new wireless system later this year.
Magnus,
I dont think using them is a "real" problem. I know of several Digitrax wireless systems in use in Sweden without a problem. But as it is illegal it can be hard to have it shipped to Sweden, you might have to make a business trip to the US and transport it yourself
Lillen wrote:What is this Lenz solution, I have not seen it. Anyone got a link?Magnus
Lenz offers the XPA ExpressNet Phone adapter to use cordless telephone handsets as pushbutton throttles. It's a pretty ingenious solution to the wireless control problem.
You can find details on this adapter at http://www.lenz.com/products/xpressnet/index.htm
The drawback to this is that you'd still need to locate a cordless phone that is comfortable to use as a throttle. And, of course, nobody makes a cordless phone with a speed control knob built in, if that's important to you.
I have and love the Digitrax Chief.
http://www.johnshobbies.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=34_37&products_id=48
I have never used any of the others except at train shows, so I cannot compare them.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
ami6 wrote: Magnus, I dont think using them is a "real" problem. I know of several Digitrax wireless systems in use in Sweden without a problem. But as it is illegal it can be hard to have it shipped to Sweden, you might have to make a business trip to the US and transport it yourself
Hi, Ive also been looking forward to the Digitrax system. The Roco system is not interesting for me. I do not like the one I got now. Maybe the new one will be better but I prefer a system that is also common is the US so I can get help from over there to. Just look at BLIs stickys at their forum for the Blueline models, no Roco help!
Nmodell do sell the Digitrax systems. It might be an issue importing these but I would be surprised if I couldn't get a hold of one from a website.
But I better check it up. So thanks for the heads up.
fmilhaupt wrote: You can find details on this adapter at http://www.lenz.com/products/xpressnet/index.htmThe drawback to this is that you'd still need to locate a cordless phone that is comfortable to use as a throttle. And, of course, nobody makes a cordless phone with a speed control knob built in, if that's important to you.
Thanks for the help. i was able to find a store in Sweden that carries them. Maybe it's worth considering. It is the "knob thing" that is the killer. I seems like a disturbing thing pushing buttons to control the speed.
Lillen wrote:Maybe the new one will be better but I prefer a system that is also common is the US so I can get help from over there to. Just look at BLIs stickys at their forum for the Blueline models, no Roco help!
Maybe the new one will be better but I prefer a system that is also common is the US so I can get help from over there to. Just look at BLIs stickys at their forum for the Blueline models, no Roco help!
I tried to program my Blueline locos with my Lenz System It is much easier with Digitrax.
ami6 wrote: Lillen wrote: Maybe the new one will be better but I prefer a system that is also common is the US so I can get help from over there to. Just look at BLIs stickys at their forum for the Blueline models, no Roco help! I tried to program my Blueline locos with my Lenz System It is much easier with Digitrax.
Lillen wrote: Maybe the new one will be better but I prefer a system that is also common is the US so I can get help from over there to. Just look at BLIs stickys at their forum for the Blueline models, no Roco help!
That is the impression I've been getting to. Lenz makes the Roco system if I'm not misinformed. Seeing that I want to be able to easily program the Blueline engines that kind of ruins the whole Lenz/Roco systems.
Right now I'm undecided between Digitrax and NCE. I think that NCE is in the lead right now for different reasons. But it's not a big lead. I have e-mailed a Swedish company to find out more about this and what they can get hold of. This is the kind of thing I do want to buy at home rather then abroad. Just one of the reason for that is the fact that I'm not a 100% sure of what power supply to get. Electronics is NOT my strong point. I just want it easy.
Lillen wrote: fmilhaupt wrote: You can find details on this adapter at http://www.lenz.com/products/xpressnet/index.htmThe drawback to this is that you'd still need to locate a cordless phone that is comfortable to use as a throttle. And, of course, nobody makes a cordless phone with a speed control knob built in, if that's important to you. Thanks for the help. i was able to find a store in Sweden that carries them. Maybe it's worth considering. It is the "knob thing" that is the killer. I seems like a disturbing thing pushing buttons to control the speed. Magnus
With NCE, the ProCabs have push button and thumbwheel control so choose what you want. (im guessing you would say thumbwheel)
ami6 wrote:I think that of NCE and Digitrax, NCE is the easiest to use. Digitrax has a steeper learning curve, but I like it. Have you found a company importing NCE to Sweden ?
I'm checking with Nmodell as we speak. I hope to get an answer soon, he answers quickly usually.
Bapou wrote: With NCE, the ProCabs have push button and thumbwheel control so choose what you want. (im guessing you would say thumbwheel)
How does this work? Is it a small wheel at the right side of the control that I use with my thumb? I know it might seem like a really dumb question but I can not see it on the pictures that I've seen.
OK,
I hinted to Anders Ö. last year that NCE could be interesting on the Swedish market. An yes they are a very good company to make business with.