davekelly wrote:Don't be hard on the Digitrax guys. The Digitrax system is a very good system or else it wouldn't have the loyal following that it does. Although I do love my PE, I can understand why many folks are a little leary of MRC. The brought out two systems that were not backwards compatable. I'm sure that left a sour taste for many folks. In my opinion I think it is great that so many folks seem to be loyal to their systems. That tells me that all the manufacturers are making quality products. This has to be a good thing!
Don't be hard on the Digitrax guys. The Digitrax system is a very good system or else it wouldn't have the loyal following that it does. Although I do love my PE, I can understand why many folks are a little leary of MRC. The brought out two systems that were not backwards compatable. I'm sure that left a sour taste for many folks.
In my opinion I think it is great that so many folks seem to be loyal to their systems. That tells me that all the manufacturers are making quality products. This has to be a good thing!
I didn't intend to be mean-- I am just trying to cut through the murk (that is not limited to this thread, like: "Throw it away and get a real system like Digitrax" which I have read before on a similar thread).
You may have indicated where some of the anti-MRC sentiment has originated. I knew their decoders had (have?) problems, but the abandonment of customers with early DCC system products is a terrible (but sometimes necessary) marketing decision.
Upward compatibility with whatever I choose is important. The computer interface does not seem important to me at present, but I am still thinking in turns of DC throttles. My first PC, for example, had a 20 MB hard drive. I'll never need more than that-- right?
Crews
Reading with interest...
From these forums and others off this site, I intend to stay away from MRC decoders; but this system looks real nice. The thumb wheel being a "must have" for me.
Tony's reviews are running on three years old and are pre-production testing concerning the PA2 (squared).
The users of the PA system seem happy. The Digitrax fans are fans and part of being a Digitrax fan seems to include having a bumper sticker that reads, "I hate MRC." If that is based on experience, I want to know. If it is based on brand loyalty, I'm not concerned (Ford, Dodge, Chevy-- they are all good trucks and the window stickers slamming the others seems pointless)
So,
Q1: Politics aside, PA2 looks like a very good system. What am I missing?
Second question need preface:
My situation: N-Scale ever growing layout, with intent on growing to room size "dream layout" in segments. Therefore, I cannot imagine the amperage issue affecting me. Modeling golden era, consists are not going to happen, so that is an MRC plus that does not effect my decision. Interchange of cabs is not going to happen-- as much as I desire the social aspects of model railroading, there simply is not any where I live.
Q2: That leads me to wondering about the computer interface. Running TTO as "lone wolf" would a computer interface allow me to set up one or more trains to run on a schedule, say, opposing one which I would be working?
Thanks,
jfugate wrote: Question for those who have a PA system:How do you remove a loco from a consist? I can't find that in the manual anywhere. It looks to me that to remove a loco from a consist you have to disable the whole consist or program CV19 back to zero on your own.Did I get this right? Or is there some secret to removing a loco from a consist that I've missed?
Question for those who have a PA system:
How do you remove a loco from a consist? I can't find that in the manual anywhere. It looks to me that to remove a loco from a consist you have to disable the whole consist or program CV19 back to zero on your own.
Did I get this right? Or is there some secret to removing a loco from a consist that I've missed?
Joe:
Yes you can only clear the entire consist. However, it is so easy and so fast to create a new consist with the loco in question left out that it's really no big deal. I guess if you were wanting to do this frequently it would be inconvenient but otherwise it's not an important issue.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
Ok I made a discovery, the wire they use is the same as ethernet or computer networking cable. So you can buy it just about everywhere, and I know it's the same cause right now this computer is hooked up to the internet using the MRC cab cable lol.
So far so good, it took me a good while to install the decoder (DH163AT) and fit all those dang wires in the loco. My GP-50 shell isn't tall enough to tape the decoder to the top of the motor, so I had to fix it under the radiator fans instead. I got the Rule 17 front and rear lights going on, as well as my rotary beacon. I had an instance where the loco wouldn't respond and after fiddling around with the system settings I discovered that reseting the cab number corrected this. I did a lot of pluging and unpluging of the decoder and the booster station while installing the decoder so that may have caused it.
The MRC PA2 allows you to set the address, start & top voltage, and momentum settings all without dealing with CVs. I used the computer decoder programer to spit out some CV numbers for me to set up the lighting. Also very streight forward, it prompts you for the CV number, then the decimal value and that's it. I almost feel like reading the manual all the way through was a waste of time because it's very intuitive to use.
Now I just gotta get some more decoders for the rest of my fleet and clean the track! (still under construction, plaster dust everywhere)
jfallon wrote: dbradley wrote: Hi Snow,The standard cables are about 6' or 7', but I did have one made up that's 12'. It's called computer wire ( I think), it has more internal wires than standard telephone, also the guy at the store tested the original cable for what's called continuity and if I'm not mistaken the connectors on the ends are the reverse of each other, in other words if the locking tab on the connector is up on one end and the cable is laid out flat, the locking tab on the other end would be facing down. I hope I'm not being to confusing, (I think I confused myself though). The extra length hasn't caused any problems since I started using it a year, year and a half ago.Den. The connectors and jacks are called RJ-45's, and ready made cables of various lengths can be found at most electronics or home improvement stores. You could also get a crimper tool and make your own using "cat 5e" cable.
dbradley wrote: Hi Snow,The standard cables are about 6' or 7', but I did have one made up that's 12'. It's called computer wire ( I think), it has more internal wires than standard telephone, also the guy at the store tested the original cable for what's called continuity and if I'm not mistaken the connectors on the ends are the reverse of each other, in other words if the locking tab on the connector is up on one end and the cable is laid out flat, the locking tab on the other end would be facing down. I hope I'm not being to confusing, (I think I confused myself though). The extra length hasn't caused any problems since I started using it a year, year and a half ago.Den.
Hi Snow,
The standard cables are about 6' or 7', but I did have one made up that's 12'. It's called computer wire ( I think), it has more internal wires than standard telephone, also the guy at the store tested the original cable for what's called continuity and if I'm not mistaken the connectors on the ends are the reverse of each other, in other words if the locking tab on the connector is up on one end and the cable is laid out flat, the locking tab on the other end would be facing down. I hope I'm not being to confusing, (I think I confused myself though). The extra length hasn't caused any problems since I started using it a year, year and a half ago.
Den.
The connectors and jacks are called RJ-45's, and ready made cables of various lengths can be found at most electronics or home improvement stores. You could also get a crimper tool and make your own using "cat 5e" cable.
I feel I need to add my 2 cents worth!
I started HO way back with a car battery and a reostat. Upgraded to a Lionel transformer and on to many home made controls. My first entry into DCC was a Bachmann bought on E-Bay not because of merits but because of dollars. I soon found the limitations to the Bachmann and bought again on E-Bay "Roco". The Roco units work very well except the yard type knob was prone to go from forward to reverse when I would panic because I had left a turnout in the wrong position. So when I was ready to upgrade again I looked at what I felt was best for me. I did not want to lug a Digitrak all in one control back and forth on my 16 foot switching railroad. I looked at NCE and MRC and opted for MRC solely because of a round knob rather than a thumb wheel. I guess I am hooked on round knobs because of many many years of twisting to get things moving. I guess the point I am trying to make is that everybody has a few quirks as to what they feel comfortable with. Glad we have the options that we have!
Cliff
CEO (careless employer of) Port Doom RR
davidmbedard wrote:You are right, beyond that (and advanced signaling), there is no real need for a computer interface.David B
You are right, beyond that (and advanced signaling), there is no real need for a computer interface.
David B
Ahh, Dave, there's so much more to it than that!
You're completely forgetting about automation of visual and/or sound effects based on train events that happen on the layout.
And no, I'm not talking about the computer running your trains (although you can do that, too, if you really want to).
Imagine having a station announcement play, without any operator intervention, when your crack passenger train is about to leave the station.
It's easy to do with LocoNet (not sure about any other DCC systems), and you don't even need transponding. Block detection and JMRI, and of course a computer interface, are all it takes.
Just set up a detection block on your station track, positioned and sized properly so it doesn't cover much more track than where the loco sits when the train is aligned with the platform.
Then, run a simple script in JMRI to listen for F0 on your passenger loco to be turned off and then back on when that detection block is occupied, and play the announcement when that happens:
Passenger train pulls into station track (block occupied)
Headlight off while in the station (F0 off)
Headlight back on as the train readies to depart (F0 on - Announcement Plays!)
And that's just one possibility. How about a fenced-in industry where the gate across the tracks swings open when the turnout is aligned for that spur?
Your imagination is the only limit.
Steve
dbradley wrote:Hi Snow,The standard cables are about 6' or 7', but I did have one made up that's 12'. It's called computer wire ( I think), it has more internal wires than standard telephone, also the guy at the store tested the original cable for what's called continuity and if I'm not mistaken the connectors on the ends are the reverse of each other, in other words if the locking tab on the connector is up on one end and the cable is laid out flat, the locking tab on the other end would be facing down. I hope I'm not being to confusing, (I think I confused myself though). The extra length hasn't caused any problems since I started using it a year, year and a half ago.Den.
If everybody is thinking alike, then nobody is really thinking.
http://photobucket.com/tandarailroad/
I have the Prodigy Advance and very happy the way it works on my HO layout. My son and I usually run two or three trains at the same time. I also have started a garden layout (G Scale) this past year. I purchased a wireless controller and a MRC 8 booster for the outside trains. I have a Bachmann 4-6-0 w/degitrax decoder and a USA S1 w/MRC decoder. They work great. For the money I don't think you could really go wrong. Anyway thats my two cents.
Simisal
Mailman56701 wrote: Snow wrote: I just ordered my PA2 from Tony's Trains for $199, cheapest price I've found anywhere, even beat ebay. Since mine is still in transit, I was just wondering, can someone tell me how long the cab cable is, and can u buy a longer one? Thanks They're seven feet long iirc. Also, they're the standard flat cable, which are a pain, to me. I ordered two of the below 7' cables to replace them. Coiled cables, work great. Cost me $15, but DigiKey is just down the road for me, so no shipping.www.digikey.com part number H2882R-07C-ND for 7 foot, H2882R-14C-ND for 14 foot.
Snow wrote: I just ordered my PA2 from Tony's Trains for $199, cheapest price I've found anywhere, even beat ebay. Since mine is still in transit, I was just wondering, can someone tell me how long the cab cable is, and can u buy a longer one? Thanks
I just ordered my PA2 from Tony's Trains for $199, cheapest price I've found anywhere, even beat ebay. Since mine is still in transit, I was just wondering, can someone tell me how long the cab cable is, and can u buy a longer one?
Thanks
They're seven feet long iirc. Also, they're the standard flat cable, which are a pain, to me. I ordered two of the below 7' cables to replace them. Coiled cables, work great.
Cost me $15, but DigiKey is just down the road for me, so no shipping.
www.digikey.com part number H2882R-07C-ND for 7 foot, H2882R-14C-ND for 14 foot.
You definitely want the coiled cord. It works so much better.
loathar wrote:How neccasary is a computer interface if your only going to have 5-10 locos and only a couple with sound? I know it's really handy if you 30+ locos, but other than programing and keeping those settings stored in a memory, what else can you do with it?
n2mopac wrote: I got my PA right after they first came out. I've been running it for over 3 years and still love it. I recently upgraded with the wireless conversion. They have had some bugs in the wireless software, but have a fix. I sent mine in, got it back in 2 weeks at no cost, and now it works perfectly. All MRC products are much maligned on this and other mrr groups, but honestly I see only one drawback to it for anyone--the lack of a computer interface. MRC is coming out with one, but it is expensive. I have consisted reasonable well without one and probably won't pop for it. I run a 17'x17' N scale layout with 95' of main and over 300' total track and 12 locomotives with the PA's original power supply and have never had a problem with power drop or overheating. I like the throttle on the PA better than any other I have ever used--the real reason I tried the PA when it came out. In short, I love it and wouldn't trade it.Ron
I got my PA right after they first came out. I've been running it for over 3 years and still love it. I recently upgraded with the wireless conversion. They have had some bugs in the wireless software, but have a fix. I sent mine in, got it back in 2 weeks at no cost, and now it works perfectly. All MRC products are much maligned on this and other mrr groups, but honestly I see only one drawback to it for anyone--the lack of a computer interface. MRC is coming out with one, but it is expensive. I have consisted reasonable well without one and probably won't pop for it. I run a 17'x17' N scale layout with 95' of main and over 300' total track and 12 locomotives with the PA's original power supply and have never had a problem with power drop or overheating. I like the throttle on the PA better than any other I have ever used--the real reason I tried the PA when it came out. In short, I love it and wouldn't trade it.
Ron
I have been using the Progidy Advance for over two years now without any major problems. I had been learning about it for iver a year and I had to get it as a matter of necessity, I had been thinking of upgrading but had a Roco Powermouse DCC system, but 3 weeks before my layout was going to be displayed for the entire family, it died, again. I wish now I would have waited with DCC until the Progidy Advance came out. It does very rarely, and at random times the controls will not respond and the solution is to restart the system. I have about 100 feet of mainline track and usaully have 6 to 8 locomotives running in 2 consists at any given time, and it handles it but there is a little bit of a power drop, but I still havent pushed it enough to overheat it yet and do not want to overheat it. I do love the consisting, it is very user friendly. At current I have no need for a computer interface, so that is not a problem if you do not need it. The Progidy Advance was perfect for my needs, and does what I need it to for my layout, and I cant say enough about it. Im going to get the wireless throttle sooner ar later...
Agreed. I think the MRC dcc systems are vastly underrated; there's a lot of misinformation passed around about them.
Owner and superintendant of the N scale Texas Colorado & Western Railway, a protolanced representaion of the BNSF from Fort Worth, TX through Wichita Falls TX and into Colorado.
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Check out my MRR How-To YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/c/RonsTrainsNThings
jfugate wrote: UpNorth wrote: jrbernier wrote: Knowing what I know now, here are the 'features' I consider needed for any new DCC System:Computer InterfaceFull CV 'read back' capability Full featured throttlesFuture Growth 'built in'Jim Bernier... And the lowly little Zephyr has them all for 159$. Uhm, not quite. The computer interface doesn't come with a Zephyr, it costs extra -- about $65 extra for the Locobuffer USB. So that's more like circa $225.Compare this to the NCE PowerCab (about $140) with the USB computer interface costing about $40. This is $180 for a starter system with a computer interface. The Zephyr's upgrade path is cleaner than the NCE PowerCab, but the NCE system's initial entry price point is lower if you want the computer interface, too.
UpNorth wrote: jrbernier wrote: Knowing what I know now, here are the 'features' I consider needed for any new DCC System:Computer InterfaceFull CV 'read back' capability Full featured throttlesFuture Growth 'built in'Jim Bernier... And the lowly little Zephyr has them all for 159$.
jrbernier wrote: Knowing what I know now, here are the 'features' I consider needed for any new DCC System:Computer InterfaceFull CV 'read back' capability Full featured throttlesFuture Growth 'built in'Jim Bernier
UpNorth wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: Whew........for a minute there, I thought I had misread the thread title................The man is not committed yet, allways time to correct a wrong .........
Mailman56701 wrote: Whew........for a minute there, I thought I had misread the thread title................
The man is not committed yet, allways time to correct a wrong .........
Whoosh...........right over the top, lol !
So now he has a valid third option to look at and make a qualified choice. That is what a forum is all about.
Knowing what I know now, here are the 'features' I consider needed for any new DCC System:
Jim Bernier
... And the lowly little Zephyr has them all for 159$.
Uhm, not quite. The computer interface doesn't come with a Zephyr, it costs extra -- about $65 extra for the Locobuffer USB. So that's more like circa $225.
Compare this to the NCE PowerCab (about $140) with the USB computer interface costing about $40. This is $180 for a starter system with a computer interface.
The Zephyr's upgrade path is cleaner than the NCE PowerCab, but the NCE system's initial entry price point is lower if you want the computer interface, too.
djb39 wrote:MRC rates the Prodigy advanced at 3.5 amps, but Tony's Trains says the Prodigy Advanced actually puts out 2.5 Amps. Details herehttp://www.tonystrains.com/technews/mrc-prodigya-note1006.htm
MRC rates the Prodigy advanced at 3.5 amps, but Tony's Trains says the Prodigy Advanced actually puts out 2.5 Amps. Details herehttp://www.tonystrains.com/technews/mrc-prodigya-note1006.htm
The link provided makes it clear that the Prodigy Advance is capable of 3.5 amps given the correct power supply. In fact, the newer Prodigy Advance units come with the 3.5 amp supply.
I'm not sure whether the OP was getting a good price on the Advance or the Advance2. The Advance has been superseded by the Advance2. IIRC, the Advance can be upgraded for a modest fee, but both are compatible anyway. The only reasons I can see for a non-geek to not buy the Prodigy Advance (or Advance2) for a home layout are
1) you prefer the ergonomics of the NCE "hammerhead" throttles.
2) you are going to use the jump ports on a Zephyr for add-on throttles for a while to come.
2) you want a computer interface so you can use Decoder Pro and a computer to program your decoders. There are work-arounds to the lack of a reasonably-priced computer interface for the Prodigy (the SPROG or similar), but these will take a little bit more than plug and play.
This assumes the price/desire features is considered reasonable across the brands, and you are not looking to use your throttle in a club environment (very few clubs use Prodigy).
On the other hand, Prodigy offers the lowest cost upgrade into radio control.
just my thoughts
Fred W
The rating on the power supply is the maximum it can deliver, not what it does deliver. When you plug a lightbulb into a 12 amp outlet in your house it doesn't draw 12 amps. It draws what it needs UP TO 12 amps.
Your DCS, not the power transformer determines what it can deliver. I don't know what the rating is on the PA, so I cannot comment on that, but if it's a 2.5 amp system, putting a 4 amp power supply on it will not hurt it, but it also will not make it a 4 amp controller.
When reading the specs, you do not care what it draws from the power supply, you care what it can deliver to the track. THAT is the number to check.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow