Something I'm not understanding!

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

To tin the pads, just hold the soldering iron on them for a couple seconds to get them hot, and them touch the end of the solder to the pad, to get a thin yer to run onto the pad.  Remove the iron, and you are done. 

[froggy]

Could you explain, tin the pads???? Also you know I have a MRC Prodigy Express and I was wondering how to and which buttons to use for a sound decoder.

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

What you can try first, that is easier, is to just tin the pads the the tabs contact, to make them a bit thicker.

[froggy]

I found a site with really clear instructions on installing the plug and play decoder for the Atlas SD-35 that I have.It involves soldering wires to the decoder tabs that come into contact with the metal tabs to the motor.I will do that and let ya know what I come up with.It says for this certain application for the SD-35 it almost always has to be done.

[UpNorth]

The 2 tabs from the motor should contact pads on the underside of the decoder.

the frame halves contact the decoder via the frame clips  and pass power to it.

The CPU is present if the decoder spun the wheels, even once, and the lights flicker.

The CPU may be of a different form factor or redesigned by Digitrax and not show it in the manual. 

Again have you tried to re-install the original light board and test the loco as is.

[KingConrail76]

I am looking at the package for the decoder.It is a Digitrax and it's DN163A0.

Oh, wow, another bad assumption.  Are these locomotives HO or N.  This decoder is for N-scale.   If N-scale ignore my prior post.

 noticed one of the metal tabs is sticking up and doesn't hardly want to stay down.I put the decoder back on and made sure it is over the metal tabs.

I hope this isn't one of the metal tabs coming up from the motor.  In that case that would be power going to the motor brushes.   A very important "tab".

Guilty as charged, I too assumed HO scale, and COMPLETELY missed the DN designation of the Digitrax P'n'P decoder. (I do use some N decoders in my HO stuff..but not p'n'p style.)

[froggy]

As I was tinkering with it some more, I got the motor to spin even on the main track. I reprogrammed it to 03.Now it won't spin, does the metal tabs on the motor have to be up or down when the decoder is on? I also see the decoder does not have a square CPU like the pictures show. Without a CPU, would this be a faulty decoder?

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

Now we are getting somewhere!

Those little ears need to be contacting the corresponding pads on the decoder.  Make sure they are.  You can bend them a bit, to take advantage of their springiness, or shim things a bit with some styrene.  Also, make sure the pads on the decoder that are wedged in to the frame are amking good contact.  The fact that the light flickered when you programmed is a good sign, that also indicates that those connections are there.

[Texas Zepher]

I am looking at the package for the decoder.It is a Digitrax and it's DN163A0.

Oh, wow, another bad assumption.  Are these locomotives HO or N.  This decoder is for N-scale.   If N-scale ignore my prior post.

 noticed one of the metal tabs is sticking up and doesn't hardly want to stay down.I put the decoder back on and made sure it is over the metal tabs.

I hope this isn't one of the metal tabs coming up from the motor.  In that case that would be power going to the motor brushes.   A very important "tab".

[UpNorth]

The Digitrax link I supplied  shows the two tabs to be the motor contact point and each frame side provides the power.  did you try and put the original board back in and run it as address 0 ?   

[KingConrail76]

Ok, I have 2 of these Atlas SD-35's myself, both Gold series with decoders preinstalled, So I am going off the diagram paper that came with mine. I am not seeing where there would be a "tab" on the loco other than the black plastic "wire retainers" (#850125).

The tabs you speak of, are they metal and secondly are they supposed to contact the decoder board for electrical continuity? or are they NOT supposed to contact, and are shorting out because they are making contact?

[froggy]

There are two tabs on the loco and one of them is having a hard time laying flat.I was happy just to see the lights flicker.But I'm still stumped as to what's wrong and why it won't move.I programed it and set it on the main track and the lights just flicker.

[KingConrail76]

I am looking at the package for the decoder.It is a Digitrax and it's DN163A0.I did tonight loosen the screws again and took the decoder out and noticed one of the metal tabs is sticking up and doesn't hardly want to stay down.I put the decoder back on and made sure it is over the metal tabs.I now get a flicker of light after I programed it. But get no movement out of the wheels.

A tab on the loco...or...A tab on the decoder?

[UpNorth]

The DN 163AO is not an NMRA 8 pin at all.

http://www.digitrax.com/ftp/dn163a0.pdf

Put the factory light board back in and see if the loco runs on DC or your DCC throttle as address 0.  It will be noisy (normal) but at least it will tell you if the engine runs.

[froggy]

I am looking at the package for the decoder.It is a Digitrax and it's DN163A0.I did tonight loosen the screws again and took the decoder out and noticed one of the metal tabs is sticking up and doesn't hardly want to stay down.I put the decoder back on and made sure it is over the metal tabs.I now get a flicker of light after I programed it. But get no movement out of the wheels.

[Texas Zepher]

it's an Atlas loco

Ok, from this and the fact that it has a DCC plug in it I am assuming it is an SD35 Master Silver from the May 2006 run.  So to install the decoder you had to remove a small plug that was in the socket.  It should be easy to convert the locomotive back to DC.  Just open it, remove the DCC decoder and put that plug back in.  Then test run the loco on DC.  This will indicate if the problem is the locomotive or the decoder.

The other Atlas SD-35 does work because the decoder was already installed in it.

That means it is an Atlas Master with a Dual-Mode decoder.

I ordered the decoder from www.fifhobby.com It is plug and play and no need to solder any wires.

Where it was purchased is irrelevant.  Since this locomotive takes an 8 pin NMRA plug, that limits the type of decoder to about 50 or so models it could be.  There has to be a brand and model on it or the packaging it came in.   Brands would be names like Lenz, Digitrax, NCE, or MRC.

 

[froggy]

I have mentioned I have a MRC Prodigy Express. I failed to tell you guys it's an Atlas loco and it is only one loco that doesn't work.The other Atlas SD-35 does work because the decoder was already installed in it.I ordered the decoder from www.fifhobby.com It is plug and play and no need to solder any wires.I just thought some guys out there enjoy working on locos and try to get them to work.It was just a thought.My LHS does not deal with decoders and they don't even have any track set up for anything.The only guy there that knows alot about trains is only there three days a week. The rest of the week they have someone else from the airplane dept. that don't knoe anything.If I knew of someone who had DCC around me I would have visited him a week ago. Thanks.

[KingConrail76]

Froggy,

We're all trying to help you, BUT YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED SOME VERY BASIC QUESTIONS>

What Brand of Locos?

What Brand of Decoders?

What brand of DCC system?

Are your installations Plug-n-Play, or did you disassemble and solder wires for your connections?

Did you TRIPLE check to see if YOU broke something when forcing the second loco back together?

Do you have a friend with a DCC system/layout close by to go to and compare results?

Do you have a LHS that is DCC knowledgeable that might test the decoder for you if your not capable?

<edit>addition

Also, telling us that they are SD-35's without more information on BRAND NAME, or that you're going to try another in a Southern Pacific without the same information, tells us nothing. There are probly 15 different companies making SD-35's over the years, and SP used probly 15 different diesel engines throughout the years.

Are they Athearn or Atlas, or Bachmann, or Life-Like, or Tyco, or etc. etc. etc....Same goes for decoders, They are all different. So far you have not given enough SPECIFIC information for any of us to do more than GUESS at what may be your problem.

As for asking someone you don't know to let you send them 2 of your locos to get working...good luck ever seeing them again...GO to your local hobby shop, or service center if you're not a member of a club or have local friends with more experiance.

[froggy]

Does anybody feel like working on a SD-35? I'll send all you need and then some.I know alot of you know more about trouble shooting these than I do.please think about it.

[Texas Zepher]

I did not try out the second one on DC before I installed the decoder.

Ah, ok, so these are both decoders that you have installed?   What brand of decoder are they?  What brand of locomotives are these?

I would always first run a new locomotive on DC power and make certain it is operating 100% before I began a DCC installation.   

[UpNorth]

The decoder does not have sound.The first one that is 003 does run on the track. I did not try out the second one on DC before I installed the decoder.

Shouldn't the motor turn when I make contact with the track?

This is not clear. Are you running on DC at this point or DCC ? It should run on  DC only if your installed decoder is programmed to convert for DC. If the conversion is off, you get nothing out to the motor.  If you are on DCC track with your installed decoder you must set and access the decoder add or it won't run the motor. On the program track it will not run anything, but acknowledge commands by a nudge to the motor. 

That's only if I got it programed right.

Answered above 

I have another decoder coming for a Southern Pacific and I hope I install it with no problems. I will have a chance to work on this again tomorrow.Thanks so far for all the replies. I'm not thru with this yet.

Good luck

[armchair]

 KC76 made a good point. On any non dcc loco I always test it on my dc test track Before installing a decoder, if the loco runs crappy or not at all, You will know it wasn't something You did wrong. This also kinda shows how the loco will perform. My dc test track is a simple cd. 83 piece of flex track with a #6 to. (all Atlas) powered with a MRC 9500 ,which has amp & volt meters in it to show how much power each loco is pulling. This may sound like a lot of hassle, but I kinda enjoy tinkering with this stuff anyway. My upgraded CVP system does Not allow You to run dc , so this is how I do it. Wish You the best, just my 2 cents............

[froggy]

The decoder does not have sound.The first one that is 003 does run on the track.I did not try out the second one on DC before I installed the decoder.Shouldn't the motor turn when I make contact with the track?That's only if I got it programed right.I have another dcoder coming for a Southern Pacific and I hope I install it with no problems.I will have a chance to work on this again tomorrow.Thanks so far for all the replies.I'm not thru with this yet.

[Texas Zepher]

The wires I'm using just to program and run these are the pre wired connectors to give power to the flex track.This is probably not heavey enough.Someone mentioned getting a boost.

The size of the wires are irrelevant.   I've run off bellwire before which I am certain is smaller than the pre-wired track connectors you are talking about.   The programming track booster units are for units that have sound.  Does your decoder unit have sound?

[Packers#1]

Did you perhaps take the loco and put it on the main, then select the loco with the controller and tell it to move forward?

[KingConrail76]

Did you test the Loco on DC BEFORE installing the decoder?

What brand of Locos?

What brand and model Decoders?

When inputting address "0004", and "0003", are you actually putting in "0004" or just "04"? (by the way, "03" is the DEFAULT decoder address, and you may not have actually programmed the first one in the first place)

You said you had problems reassembling Loco #2 after installing the decoder...Did you (assuming you are using wired decoders) break a wire or solder joint?  Try programming and testing BEFORE reassembling the body to the chassis.

You say you're swapping wires from FLEX program track to layout, How are you connecting to FLEX? aligator clips? soldered leads with a plug? feeder/joiners?

[froggy]

This is something I'll have to check on tomorrow.Even when I thought I programed the decoder, and it wouldn't move I even took the trucks off. I move the loco to the main track and the metal that gives power to the wheels touches the track and I can't even get the motor to turn.

[UpNorth]

Short leads between your unit and the flex track (22 gauge) is perfect.  it does not require high current to program or run at this time.

If you could program one loco, the booster may or may  not help  you.   I have a PowerPax booster  from Tony's Trains and it works with some and not at all with others.  The locos nudge forward to acknowledge but refuse to be programmed. On those were it works, I remove the PowerPax booster and I can still program the ones that worked.

back to your situation.

On the program track, can you read the decoder at all ?. Does it nudge forward when you try to read it ? . It is suppose to nudge forward during programming because this is how the station knows the loco is responding.

You may have a dead decoder. Have you tried a reset to defaults to the decoder ?    

[froggy]

What I have is a MRC Prodigy Express.I just have a peice of flex track on the table to program a couple of locos.Then I switch the wires over to the main track to run them.The wires I'm using just to program and run these are the pre wired connectors to give power to the flex track.This is probably not heavey enough.Someone mentioned getting a boost.Which website should I go to and do I need one just to program?