Im attempting to put together a 12' x 16' HO Three oval, 2 yd, turntable outfit the old way (no DCC) cause im Ill, in need of a transplant, and trying to squeeze this in on Social Security. (its always been my dream). Anyway my wife has me on the extreem lack of budget. (thats why no DCC! lol) I just bought all my track second hand off our favorite Auction site (bay), ALL BRASS! totally retro!
I just got the DPDT Momentaries and all, Have schematics for my Power supplies (with momentum) now Im in search of a large quantity of inexpensive wire. CAT5 network cable came to mind but Im not sure it can handle the current without getting too hot. I have a serious knowledge of electronic components and circiut board etching, but to save my life i cant remember if this thin a guage would be safe with 2-2.5 amps if I train 3 locos back to back on the same track. Anybody else tried this or have the knowledge of whether or not this wire would be safe enough, (meltdown would be bad lol) I suppose I could use CAT5 for accessories and switching power and some maybe 22ga for the track power?
Any help would be appreciated!!!!!
I haven't used cat5 for track power , but old cat5 from work , has been used on my layout for acessories and switch control and lighting. My layout is the same size as yours and I have runs going around the layout for lights and switches using cat5 as long as 30 ft. No problems with it in those applications.
Jerry SP FOREVER http://photobucket.com/albums/f317/GAPPLEG/
I use Cat5 for all accessories but not for track power. I run to a common point and then cross connect using 66 blocks. Here's a few pictures:
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
I concur that CAT 5 wiring probably is not a good choice for track power. You probably really need something heavier, like about 20 ga, if you have fairly long runs.
I understand your financial situation, and I hope you feel better soon. If you haven't yet purchased engines and wiring material for dc blocks, you may want to reconsider DCC. It will handle your momentum issues with no additional outlay. The engines cost a little more with DCC decoders in them. If you can make circuit boards and build throttles, you should be able to install a $15 decoder in a $50 engine. A starter DCC system, for example an NCE PowerCab, will cost about $150. You can add one extra throttle down the road for another $50 or so. You will not need the complex block wiring with all those block switches - the entire track can be hot all the time. I couldn't imagine going back to DC once you go DCC.
Jim
WOW!! Hallelujah!! I never figured on getting help this fast!! Coining a phrase (Charles Dickens..well nearly) I hope not to offend anyone, but.. God Bless Yas!, Everyone!!! lolol
I read how many members here...thats what I call a forum!! I thought I was like the last of a dying breed with HO, dont have a Train Store for 30 miles from here...looks like, I got a lot of friends!! Im presently back on the "bay" pricing 100" CAT5s and spools of 20 guage!!
Thanks Again!!!!!!
jim22,
I bought my engines and rolling stock about 8 yrs ago, Walthers, Athern, and such, DC Blocks, I bought one and one crossing flasher,and such and will reproduce the boards by hand, Once I get this up n operating, I hope to get a DCC schematics and home build those to, praying I survive my ordeal of course, I hear one needs a spare PC? Can I use the track switches I have? I do alot of recycling on my budget, if anyone need some ideas how to use stuff from round the house, and yard!
woolseyrl@yahoo.com
(I dont know if I can be contacted personally on this forum or not) Im pretty new to forum stuff!
jbinkley60,
WOW!! Ok, Ok I done warranty work for Toshiba, but it looks like I might have just a tad bit of brushing up to do in the wiring department!!! Sensational!
jbinkley60 wrote:I use Cat5 for all accessories but not for track power. I run to a common point and then cross connect using 66 blocks. Here's a few pictures:
Wow, very nice job. I aquired a ton of Cat5 Cat3 and other comm cable w/punchdown distribution racks recently. It was my intention to use some of it to wire the layout we are building. Thanks for posting the pictures. That is exactly what I had in mind.
WOW, Engineer Jeff,
Could you come over and do my wiring too? Very impressive looking work!
Paul
I used CAT 5 cable for the controller bus on a large 20 x 40 foot HO scale club layout, but it is intended to handle only 5 Volts DC for the logic chips in the controllers. It will not handle the amperage necessary to run a train. But since there are 8 conductors inside a CAT 5 jacket, you could twist two sets of four wires each together and it would then be heavy enough to handle the load. The biggest drawback to doing this would be keeping the color coding right all the way around so you don't create a short circuit.
A cheap alternative that can handle the current load is stranded speaker wire from the electronics section at Wal-mart, K-mart, Target, etc. All of the track bus wiring on the club layout mentioned above, and on my home layout, is speaker wire, and we have no voltage losses anywhere even with multiple trains running.
I don't remember what I paid for speaker wire the last time I purchased a 100 foot hank at Wal-mart, but All Electronics in Van Nuys, California has 18 guage stranded speaker wire in 100 foot rolls for $9.35 each, plus shipping.
cacole wrote:since there are 8 conductors inside a CAT 5 jacket, you could twist two sets of four wires each together and it would then be heavy enough to handle the load. The biggest drawback to doing this would be keeping the color coding right all the way around so you don't create a short circuit.
I figured that the orange pairs with the brown pairs and the blue with the green would be clear enough for me.
I find broken network cables to be a wonderful source of wire for all kinds of projects on the RR. In a recent structure I wanted lighting circuits for each floor of the building and found an off cut to be perfect for this. I even used a modular jack that I had laying around to allow for easy disconnect from the layout base. Here is the cable before I fed it down through the base of the model.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Texas Zepher wrote:The problem our club discovered with CAT5 wiring that we used for turnout motors (very similar to JBinkey60's pictures) was how easily the wires broke. It seems everytime someone worked around them there would be at least one break. We were soldering the wire directly to the lugs which we thought might have something to do with it, so we switched to plugs. That made things worse. We were using solid wire, we are now trying stranded instead. If this doesn't work we are going back to more normal heavier gauge wire.
Yes you will find that with the solid cat5 conductors, they don't permit a lot of flexing. You will be much happier with the stranded wire, IMO.
I use speaker wire for the power buss, too.
And telephone wire for switches.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I've never had a single broken wire. Maybe I am just lucky. I do find that punch down 66 blocks to be a godsend for wiring. It is very easy to make changes and it minimizes the documentation needed since it is very easy to number each switch and then use wire markers to number each cable.
jbinkley60 wrote:I've never had a single broken wire. Maybe I am just lucky. I do find that punch down 66 blocks to be a godsend for wiring. It is very easy to make changes and it minimizes the documentation needed since it is very easy to number each switch and then use wire markers to number each cable.
Your use of the punchdown blocks may be why. I find the cat5 wire seems far more likely to break where it has been bared/stripped for connection. The wires that are connected in a punchdown block do not seem to break as easily. Just my
I have used Cat 5 for all of my layout's wiring with no issues whatsoever. When doing the wiring, it worked so well that I didn't have any wiring errors or anything go wrong.
For between my layout sections, I used modified computer power splitters for connections.
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
jbinkley60 wrote:I've never had a single broken wire. Maybe I am just lucky.
I do find that punch down 66 blocks to be a godsend for wiring. It is very easy to make changes and it minimizes the documentation needed since it is very easy to number each switch and then use wire markers to number each cable.
Texas Zepher wrote: jbinkley60 wrote:I've never had a single broken wire. Maybe I am just lucky.I think it is just that your wiring isn't nearly as dense as ours. It looks like you can get to and service one of the tortoise motors without being 3" from another one.
I have a couple of places like that but not too many. I also practice good wire management and keep my cables bundled down pretty well.
Texas Zepher wrote: jbinkley60 wrote:I do find that punch down 66 blocks to be a godsend for wiring. It is very easy to make changes and it minimizes the documentation needed since it is very easy to number each switch and then use wire markers to number each cable.That's why the Bell System invented them. Unfortunately most people don't have a punchdown tool as regular fare in their tool boxes.
jbinkley60 wrote:I do find that punch down 66 blocks to be a godsend for wiring. It is very easy to make changes and it minimizes the documentation needed since it is very easy to number each switch and then use wire markers to number each cable.
And even fewer have both types of punchdown tools
jbinkley60 wrote:And even fewer have both types of punchdown tools
Prior to getting a punchdown tool for my toolbox I found I could do pretty well with a pair of needle nose and a fine blade flat screwdriver.
The punchdown tool makes life much easier though.
BlueHillsCPR wrote: jbinkley60 wrote:And even fewer have both types of punchdown tools Prior to getting a punchdown tool for my toolbox I found I could do pretty well with a pair of needle nose and a fine blade flat screwdriver. The punchdown tool makes life much easier though.
Yep, I used the old needle nose pliers myself with some prior work years ago but that is slow going and you still have to break the excess wire off. I finally broke down and bought the punchdown tools a number of years back.
jbinkley60 wrote:Yep, I used the old needle nose pliers myself with some prior work years ago but that is slow going and you still have to break the excess wire off. I finally broke down and bought the punchdown tools a number of years back.
For sure! I had a pair of nippers that would trim the excess really close so I didn't have to break it off. Even so the punchdown tool rocks by comparison! I've got one for doing CAT5 but so far have not picked up a tool for the telco blocks...same for the crimpers, RJ45 only at this time.
gona ask a dunb question .I supose if I go to the store that sells these cat 5's they will have all the things you people are talking about,Right? thank you for your time .
slow train Ed
slow train Ed wrote: gona ask a dunb question .I supose if I go to the store that sells these cat 5's they will have all the things you people are talking about,Right? thank you for your time .slow train Ed
They may not have punchdown tools and 66 blocks but they will likely have Cat 5 crimp connecters and crimping tools. Punchdown tools and 66 blocks are telephone equipment or older style LAN cabling tools (i.e. Cat 3 and lower). For punchdown and 66 blocks you can try places like L-Com, Smarthome.com or Anixter.
slow train Ed wrote:gona ask a dunb question .I supose if I go to the store that sells these cat 5's they will have all the things you people are talking about,Right? thank you for your time .slow train Ed
In my case the Home Depot located in a nearby city carries; the cable, the crimpers, the punchdown tools, the connector ends in RJ-45, RJ11 and RJ12, and leviton quickport jacks to match the connectors. Did I miss anything?
Punchdown tools are also used for the newer Category 5 network cabling. As was mentioned the "66 blocks" are telecommunications and category 3 network terminal blocks. See the link below for pictures and descriptions. It does take a little instruction and practice to make quality cables using the tools mentioned. Just my
http://www.hometech.com/techwire/head.html