"I assume you use DCC? So much for the idea that DCC means less wiring........"
Sheldon, I use DCC. There are two members of my club that still run DC. I have looked at their wiring, and quite frankly it looks like a bowl of vermicelli. I believe that DCC wiring is "less" then DC, but if you are still running DC and are happy with it, then great. A lot of modelers drop feeders from every section of track, which is fine if that is what they want to do. I don't and with the two exceptions I have noted in a previous post on this thread, I have not had any issues in about 10 years.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
bearman "I assume you use DCC? So much for the idea that DCC means less wiring........" Sheldon, I use DCC. There are two members of my club that still run DC. I have looked at their wiring, and quite frankly it looks like a bowl of vermicelli. I believe that DCC wiring is "less" then DC, but if you are still running DC and are happy with it, then great. A lot of modelers drop feeders from every section of track, which is fine if that is what they want to do. I don't and with the two exceptions I have noted in a previous post on this thread, I have not had any issues in about 10 years.
DC or DCC, in my view as an electrician, there is little excuse for sloppy wiring practices.
The "version" of DC I use is likely something you have not seen.
I use wireless radio throttles, have CTC and signaling, and one button route control of turnouts, all intergrated in one system.
Wiring under my layout looks similar to this:
And control panels along the layout look similar to this:
These are photos from a radio throttle Advanced Cab Control system similar to what use that I designed and installed for a friend years ago.
I am very familiar with DCC as well, and have many hours operating on DCC layouts and have designed and helped build several for friends as well.
For me, signaling, CTC, and being able to operate in three different specific modes is more important than the special features of DCC.
But I still chuckle at those who try to sell DCC based on "less wiring".
Sometimes it is less wiring, but as layout size and desired features increase, it quickly becomes simply a different kind of wiring, not less of it.
DCC offers no special advantages to those of us interested in signaling and CTC, that feature will be complex, require lots of wire, and be expensive no matter if you use DCC or DC, or if you use relays or computers.
DCC offers no special advantages in controlling turnouts, at least not in my view.
But the fact remains, no matter how complex my DC sytem is, I don't need a buss following my track around with drops every 3 feet, or 6 feet, or even 12 feet.
The wiring for my system is complex, it is also mostly done on a work bench then installed.........neatly.....
I'm not anti DCC, I just believe two things:
Don't try to sell it based on how "easy" it is.
And, "one size does not fit all".
Sheldon
Sheldon I am not anti-DC. As I indicated if you are happy with your situation then more power to you. I have a DCC system which is only used to power the tracks. with one exception, all my turnouts are manual groundthrows. And I don't try to "sell" DCC. I do know however, that, for me, I would not have the layout I have today if it were not for DCC. I would still be operating a 4 X 8 with two blocks and two locomotives.
bearman Sheldon I am not anti-DC. As I indicated if you are happy with your situation then more power to you. I have a DCC system which is only used to power the tracks. with one exception, all my turnouts are manual groundthrows. And I don't try to "sell" DCC. I do know however, that, for me, I would not have the layout I have today if it were not for DCC. I would still be operating a 4 X 8 with two blocks and two locomotives.
I understand, and I'm glad you found your problem and it was a simple fix.
I did not take any of your posts to be anti DC, the point of my posts was simply that soldering rail joints works, DC or DCC.
To which, from another poster, I was once again met with the implied message that 200 feeder drops (my new layout will have about 600 feet of track) is "better" than soldering rail joints.
In addition to all my comments above, I have known several DC modelers who converted their layouts to DCC without any real rewiring. They simply connected DCC to all their exisiting DC block wiring, giving them one feeder or "drop" per every 15' to 30' of track, most often track with soldered rail joints within each block........
Their layouts all performed well on DCC. Again supporting the idea that the every 3' to 6' thing is overkill of the highest order.
DCC is a great system for the most part. I seriously considered it several times.
But for my specific goals, the additional features it would provide do not justify the very large expense of installing decoders in 145 locomotives - 145 locomotives necessary to operate my layout in the way I desire.
The other thing that kept me away from DCC is the poor design/complexity of the "user interface", in other words the throttles - too many buttons, too hard to see/touch.
With my Advanced Cab Control, the user experiance of controlling a train is much like DCC, but even simpler when there is a Dispatcher on duty. You simply pick up a throttle and a Yard Master says "this is your train, here are your orders".
The throttle has 5 operational buttons - EAST, WEST, SLOWER, FASTER, EMERGENCY STOP - that's it.
The mainline has signals - you obey them - you go, you stop, you read your train order/timetable. Routes are set for you by the Dispatcher, signals and tell you where and when to go, just like the prototype. Moving to your left is always west, moving to your right is always east.
If you fail to obey the signals, nothing bad happens, we have Automatic Train Control like the prototype had in days gone by. You run a red signal, your train just stops.
Yes, a big part of my interest is in Class I railroad mainline operations, set in the 1950's. I like long, realistic mainline trains, typically 35 to 50 cars. The new layout, like the old layout will be large but relatively simple. It will stage about 30 trains and operate 4-6 of them at a time on the mainline.
But my layout also provides switching, yard work, and belt line/branchline operations as well.
The point of all this explaination? Not everyone has the same interests and goals, so the same solutions to control or wiring do not suit every layout.
Example, you mentioned that your turnouts are ground throws. On my layout, if on the prototype it would be a ground throw, I have a ground throw (yards, sidings, belt lines, branch lines, secondary trackage). Only the CTC controlled double track mainline uses switch machines, but those switch machines can be controlled at local towers AND by the Dispatcher at the CTC panel. And they are largely controlled by "route" selection, not individually. Route selection that happens with one button.
Features like this take advanced wiring, no matter what controls the locos, DC or DCC.
Same with the detection and signals - complex wiring no matter the method, DC or DCC.
Every layout is different, every modeler has different goals, but soldered rail joints are generally a win/win........
Sheldon, there is no way that I would even come close to considering the kind of wiring and controls, regardless of it being DC or DCC, that you have done.
My regards.
bearman Sheldon, there is no way that I would even come close to considering the kind of wiring and controls, regardless of it being DC or DCC, that you have done. My regards.
Bear,
I understand. We all have different interests, different skills, different vision for our layouts.