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New Dcc system. What one to buy?

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  • Member since
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  • From: 4610 Metre's North of the Fortyninth on the left coast of Canada
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Posted by BATMAN on Sunday, October 8, 2017 9:19 PM

It would be great if someone could make a list of the pros and cons of both, then those of us that are less informed on the more intricate matters of DCC could check off what is important to us.Laugh

Someday I will become more educated in such things when I have the time, but for now it is word of mouth and a little reading that helps with the decision.

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, October 8, 2017 11:56 PM

Stevert:

I think you miss the real meaning behind the comment that Digitrax has "too many buttons". The number of buttons isn't the real issue for me and many others. The criticism would be better stated as "there are too many buttons that look all the same..."


In addition to the multiple identical buttons, the graphics on the face of the throttle below the buttons are very poorly designed. When I pick up my Power Cab I can instantly see what each button does. When I pick up a Digitrax throttle at the club I find myself squinting at the button identification signs wondering "what the heck is that symbol?"

Yes, over time anyone could figure out what the symbols mean. The question is " How much time?" My NCE Power Cab took me literally milliseconds to figure out what each button did. I'm still not comfortable with the Digitrax throttles after several hours of use. I guess I'm just slow.

The plain, simple truth is that the NCE throttles are intuitive and the Digitrax throttles are not!

My 2 Cents

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, October 9, 2017 6:00 AM

Stevert

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
Stevert

 

 
restorator

It seems that the main reason people choose NCE over Digitrax is all in the throttles, even to the extent of passing on the loconet functionality. Is there a reason Digitrax (or a third party) does not offer a better designed throttle? From what I read they would win the DCC wars if only that. 

 

 

 

The problem is that everyone has their own idea of the "ideal" throttle. 

Personally, I think the "hammerhead" style is way too big for what it does.  Even though I have somewhat large hands, I prefer the smaller Digitrax DTxxx throttles.  Other folks have other preferences.

 

 

 

The Digitrax throttle:

Too many buttons

<snip>

Sheldon 

 

 

I have to laugh every time I hear that complaint about Digitrax throttles vs. NCE or whoever.

Have you ever actually counted the number of buttons/knobs on a ProCab vs. a DTxxx? 

The DTxxx (which, BTW, will control two locos or consists simultaneously.  Not by going back and forth through the recall stack, but simultaneously) actually has one LESS button/knob than the ProCab. 

Not a big difference, to be sure, but enough to blow that "Too many buttons" argument out of the water.

 

Did you read what I wrote? The buttons are too close together, they are too small, etc.

And again, I WOULD NOT PICK NCE EITHER.........CLEARLY YOU MISSED THAT FACT.

This is my choice, only 14 buttons, less than half compaired to Digitrax:

http://cvpusa.com/easydcc_wireless_throttle_t1300e.php

AND, I have NO use for controlling two trains at the same time from one wireless throttle, just another feature that makes the Digitrax throttle cluttered and hard to use.

AND, even though I don't use DCC at home, most of my modeler friends do, and I have dozens, if not hundreds, of hours on a Digitrax throttle......and I still don't like them.

I'm 60 years old, I've been using Digitrax on other peoples layouts for a decade or more, no thank you, not at my house.

Like a lot of people my age I need reading glasses, but otherwise have very good vision. I don't wear bifocals and don't need glasses to see the trains on the layout, so seeing/reading the small icons (I hate icons) is impossible without my glasses, which I am not wearing while running trains.

I can operate my Aristo wireless throttles while holding it behind my back.........it only has 5 buttons which can be operated strickly by feel.

Somebody should make a DCC throttle like that......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, October 9, 2017 7:36 AM

 See, once I select a loco, that's hoow I use my Digitrax throttle. Down at my side, thumb on the speed control (which is also the direction control when you push it). One handed, noot staring at the screen. If you are walking around with your train, why do you need a positive stop at the stop and max speeds? It's pretty obvious that you've stopped.

 But there's always the UT4, with a toggle switch for direction and a big potentiometer knob. No screen, and only 8 buttons. Personally I hate them and do not own any, from the moment I experienced the control you get with an encoder I gave up on anything with a limited movement potentiometer.

 Oh yes - if not doing sound, then you don't really need ANY of the buttons, or at least don't need to be searching them out. Speed and direction, all just one knob and without the gimmick of if you keep going past stop it starts going in reverse and vice-versa. I've seen that option even on potentiometer throttles which really boggles my mind - now you have less than half the range of motion representing speed from stop to full. That's like trying to run a sound loco on DC. 

                              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by CGW121 on Monday, October 9, 2017 7:54 AM

I bought a UT4 so the grand kids could use it as it was cheaper than the full control throttles. I find I use it a lot for yard switching. I also do not care for sound so I do not use those functions a lot.

  • Member since
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, October 9, 2017 8:36 AM

rrinker

 See, once I select a loco, that's hoow I use my Digitrax throttle. Down at my side, thumb on the speed control (which is also the direction control when you push it). One handed, noot staring at the screen. If you are walking around with your train, why do you need a positive stop at the stop and max speeds? It's pretty obvious that you've stopped.

 But there's always the UT4, with a toggle switch for direction and a big potentiometer knob. No screen, and only 8 buttons. Personally I hate them and do not own any, from the moment I experienced the control you get with an encoder I gave up on anything with a limited movement potentiometer.

 Oh yes - if not doing sound, then you don't really need ANY of the buttons, or at least don't need to be searching them out. Speed and direction, all just one knob and without the gimmick of if you keep going past stop it starts going in reverse and vice-versa. I've seen that option even on potentiometer throttles which really boggles my mind - now you have less than half the range of motion representing speed from stop to full. That's like trying to run a sound loco on DC. 

                              --Randy

 

 

Randy, for the actual running the train part, I agree, even though I'm not fond of the encoder wheel. But for everything else, that throttle is a pain that has me reaching for my glasses......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Old Fat Robert on Monday, October 9, 2017 10:14 AM

John: I am curious about the final resolution of questions such as yours. Let us assume that at some point you stop reading the replies to your question and take a poll on the answers. X number of people say NCE, y say Digitrax, z say CVP. The "x"s win the poll. You buy it and don't like it. What then? The point is - it is your money - you should decide on how it is spent. I can't tell you that the things I like or don't like about my system are going to be positives or negatives for you. Test them all. Then tell us why you chose the one you did. Just my thoughts.

Old Fat Robert

 

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, October 9, 2017 11:38 AM

I've had my Lenz system for 10 or 12 years and it's still working well, but it is an old system and there have been few upgrades or additions to their line.  My primary throttle has seen a lot of use, and probably needs to be refurbished.

I like the "Dispatcher" throttle.  I've also got the "Engineer" throttle, and find it much less user friendly.  On the Dispatcher throttle, I like the large pushbuttons as compared to the tiny buttons on most other throttles.  I actually bought the Engineer throttle so I could personally compare that one with a large analog throttle knob, but I found that the Engineer throttle is far less capable for programming and selecting engines, so I would not buy one of those at all.

Lenz does not have a wireless throttle of their own.  I've got a CVP add-on system.  That works very well, also, but I haven't tried programming with it.

Any new user should try as many systems as possible and make sure he's comfortable with the throttle.  That's going to be your primary interface with the system, so you want to be happy with it.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by Stevert on Monday, October 9, 2017 1:36 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
Stevert

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
Stevert

 

 
restorator

It seems that the main reason people choose NCE over Digitrax is all in the throttles, even to the extent of passing on the loconet functionality. Is there a reason Digitrax (or a third party) does not offer a better designed throttle? From what I read they would win the DCC wars if only that. 

 

 

 

The problem is that everyone has their own idea of the "ideal" throttle. 

Personally, I think the "hammerhead" style is way too big for what it does.  Even though I have somewhat large hands, I prefer the smaller Digitrax DTxxx throttles.  Other folks have other preferences.

 

 

 

The Digitrax throttle:

Too many buttons

<snip>

Sheldon 

 

 

I have to laugh every time I hear that complaint about Digitrax throttles vs. NCE or whoever.

Have you ever actually counted the number of buttons/knobs on a ProCab vs. a DTxxx? 

The DTxxx (which, BTW, will control two locos or consists simultaneously.  Not by going back and forth through the recall stack, but simultaneously) actually has one LESS button/knob than the ProCab. 

Not a big difference, to be sure, but enough to blow that "Too many buttons" argument out of the water.

 

 

 

Did you read what I wrote? The buttons are too close together, they are too small, etc.

And again, I WOULD NOT PICK NCE EITHER.........CLEARLY YOU MISSED THAT FACT.

This is my choice, only 14 buttons, less than half compaired to Digitrax:

http://cvpusa.com/easydcc_wireless_throttle_t1300e.php

AND, I have NO use for controlling two trains at the same time from one wireless throttle, just another feature that makes the Digitrax throttle cluttered and hard to use.

AND, even though I don't use DCC at home, most of my modeler friends do, and I have dozens, if not hundreds, of hours on a Digitrax throttle......and I still don't like them.

I'm 60 years old, I've been using Digitrax on other peoples layouts for a decade or more, no thank you, not at my house.

Like a lot of people my age I need reading glasses, but otherwise have very good vision. I don't wear bifocals and don't need glasses to see the trains on the layout, so seeing/reading the small icons (I hate icons) is impossible without my glasses, which I am not wearing while running trains.

I can operate my Aristo wireless throttles while holding it behind my back.........it only has 5 buttons which can be operated strickly by feel.

Somebody should make a DCC throttle like that......

Sheldon

 

You don't need to shout.

Yes, I read what you wrote.  And I replied to only one aspect of it, which is why I snipped the rest.

But nowhere in that reply did I say you would pick NCE.  I just used their throttle as an example to illustrate my point that although folks want to rant about the number of buttons on a Digitrax throttle, it actually has fewer than the most-often-mentioned competition.

And as far as your 60 years:  Congratulations, I wish you many more!  But I'll see you those 60 and raise you another three, so I'm guessing my vision issues are similar to yours.  I tried bifocals, even the rather expensive progressive ones.  Can't stand 'em.  They're sitting in a drawer.

I'm also a long-time DCC user.  I cut my DCC teeth on the NCE system at the club I belonged to at the time, and I got a demonstration of the System One from Don Wangrow himself at an NMRA Division Meet.

But in spite of all that, I still picked Digitrax for my home layout roughly 15 years ago and I haven't for a second regretted that choice.

Now, as a reminder of what *I* previously wrote: 

Stevert

Other folks have other preferences.

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 12:30 AM

OK guys, back into your corners please. Getting vociferous doesn't answer the OP's question very well.

Bottom line is that NCE has won the vote. Again.

Personally, if I was choosing again, I'd give the EasyDCC system a good look, but I'm not about to scrap my NCE Power Cab.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,204 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 4:24 AM

I bought the NCE wireless system 11 years ago because it had the features I wanted in DCC - mainly wireless walk around.  And I have been happy with it ever since.  But then I don't use some features like consisting so I can't say how they work.  Sure the throttle is big, but even my 6 year grandson can make it work.

My suggestion is decide what you want the system to do for you and then see which one does it best.

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by gdelmoro on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 6:42 PM

Stevert

 

 
gdelmoro

I have the wireless NCE PH-Pro system and like it very much. Maybe because I'm used to it now the other systems look confusing but I must say I have never tried them.

Here is a system comparison https://tonystrains.com/comparison-dcc-systems/

The best advice so far in this thread is "Try them yourself".

 

 

 

 

Wow, you mean Tony's (who at one time apparently had a manufacturing/marketing agreement with NCE) is still pushing that outdated old chart!!??

The one that talks about the DT100, which was discontinued in 2000, but doesn't bother to even mention the DT402 (now also retired) or the DT500? 

And that's missing the DCS240 comand station and the DCS210-based Evolution starter sets and the DB210/DB220 line of boosters?

And the WiFi throttle ability (without JMRI) that the LNWI provides?

Sorry, but IMHO that "comparison" is either absurdly out of date or intentionally misleading.

 

Sorry, just tried to help. I didn’t realize it was outdated.

Gary

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Posted by bearman on Saturday, October 14, 2017 8:00 AM

I ditto NCE.  My Digitrax Zephyr is now used to program locomotives.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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  • From: Nashville, TN area
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Posted by hardcoalcase on Saturday, October 14, 2017 11:17 AM

I bought my first DCC system when I was just starting to build a layout so I needed it to get things running quickly, but the need for multiple throttles and wireless was way down the road. 

I chose NCE because of the low cost of the starter system, and the "nothing wasted" path to adding components to get to full wireless control.  

Jim

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