gdelmoro Ok something is wrong! 2 MORE BLI Locos stopped working. I moved the EB1 to 4 Vlots so short. When I tested the track voltage with a multimeter (I know wrong thing but I don't have a DCC meter yet) it shows about 10VAC. Voltage is steady. A SS washer across the tracks trips the breaker. One loco just runs backwards now. It was running fine until I programed volume CV's and switched some function buttons. The horn will sound but it does not stop until I shut power. The other (JUST Repaired) ran forward until I tried to switch to reverse and then it stopped (still making sound) but cant sound horn or bell and wont move. I'm guessing it cant be BLI must be something wrong with the Wiring or NCE. Wiring is simple a 12Ga Buss with 18Ga feeders connected with Suitcase Connectors. All sections have equal power.
Ok something is wrong! 2 MORE BLI Locos stopped working. I moved the EB1 to 4 Vlots so short. When I tested the track voltage with a multimeter (I know wrong thing but I don't have a DCC meter yet) it shows about 10VAC. Voltage is steady. A SS washer across the tracks trips the breaker.
One loco just runs backwards now. It was running fine until I programed volume CV's and switched some function buttons. The horn will sound but it does not stop until I shut power. The other (JUST Repaired) ran forward until I tried to switch to reverse and then it stopped (still making sound) but cant sound horn or bell and wont move.
I'm guessing it cant be BLI must be something wrong with the Wiring or NCE. Wiring is simple a 12Ga Buss with 18Ga feeders connected with Suitcase Connectors. All sections have equal power.
But, let's begin with Randy's suggestion. Have you tried resetting the decoder to factory default when things go wrong? All NCE decoders reset to factory default with CV30=2. Do this on the Programming Track and then go through the Standard Programming (Option 1) procedure on pages 58-60 of the Manual to re-establish the long address. I wonder if you are inadvertently remapping functions?
I agree with Randy that 10 volts is simply too low to operate in DCC, but your meter is probably giving you false readings. I went down and checked my system, and the voltage is a steady 13.5 volts.
OK, let's start with some basic troubleshooting. You removed the EB1 in front of the Programming Track, so that is good. The remaining three EB1s protect the dual mainline and the two yards. All three circuit breakers are set to trip at 4 amps. Do the failures all occur on the mainline? What about inside the yards? If you are only testing locos on the mainline, move them over to the yards to see if they fail there. I suggest this to determine if the mainline EB1 is faulty.
Which version of the EPROM do you have installed in your command station? The most recent version is 3/1/2007c, released on 10/18/2011.
Is your command station battery fresh? How old is it? I mark the battery replacement station on my command station for easy reference.
One other question. How many locomotives are sitting on your layout? I just wonder how much effort would be required to remove all but one loco for testing purposes.
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks Randy, really appreciate the input. I did set CV4 to 100 but they were not behaving that way. One Noel went in reverse the other stripped but diesel sound kept on.
I'm HOPING I diodn't fry three decoders.
I'll check the volts and meter and post reults.
Again Thanks
Gary
gdelmoro I'm HOPING I diodn't fry three decoders.
Rich, I reset the decoders in the locomotives by doing a hard reset (holding down decoder button and applying power. works after that with address 3 forward and backwards. After I finish programming it works for about 2 feet then does it's own thing or stops.
failures all on the main. I'm afraid to try any more locos. I should be able to tell if teh EB1 is the cause by testing voltage before and after as Randy suggested correct?
Rookie to DCC here... How do I tell the version on the command astation. The NCE System is New December 2016. I wired the mainline befor I got the System then just connected to it. How long do batteries last? How do I tell if it's good?
I removed all but three, when the Mikado failed I took all off except teh one I was working on.
Thank you for helping.
New purchase could be old stock but not likely so old as to miss the latest EPROM.
When you power up, have Pro Cab throttle in hand because the message passes by somewhat quickly. It should show Version 1.5A for the radio wireless. Then press the Prog/Esc key 5 times and then press the Enter key. The latest EPROM should read March 2007.
The battery should last up to 5 years according to NCE, so if the purchase is new then the battery should be fine.
If it were me at this point, I would take all my locos off the layout and then place one problem loco on the Programming Track and key in CV30=2 and CV8=8 to reset the decoder to factory default. Then I would go through the Standard Procedure (Option 1) to reset the desired long address. Then, run the loco through its paces, going across the mainline and into and out of the yards to test each EB1 individually. I would then take that loco off the layout and repeat these procedures with the next loco.
At this stage, you will need to do some deductive reasoning and testing to eliminate potential sources of problems. Too much going on here to suggest an easy fix.
With all these problems, you'd think BLI would know better.
I'm Suprised none of my Athearn locomotives are giving me trouble.
I'm pretty sure it's not a BLI problem. At this point it's more likely my wiring, the CB or the NCE.
By the way, how long has your current layout been up. I am curious if the layout is new and/or if these problems occurred much in the past.
Connected to the NCE System December 2016. I have had several problems with the locomotives that I now think is being caused by the wiring or NCE.
gdelmoroWouldn't the locos hesitate or stop / start if there were a short at the turnout?
Mike
Getting stranger.
This is the meter
https://imgur.com/gallery/xi9Qz This is the meter
https://imgur.com/gallery/gTKJZ This is what it reads on BOTH sides of the CB AND the Ferry Yard tracks no matter which probe is on which rail or terminal (always negative) PS the Loco runs fine in the yard.
https://imgur.com/gallery/bSkC0 This is what I get on the mainline.
Continuity is good between the NCE and CB the Black wire in and out of the CB is good too but the Red wire in and out is about 1/2 of the reading i get on the other tests.
gdelmoroContinuity is good between the NCE and CB
NCE? If so, why do you have the meter set to a DC scale?
gdelmoro Connected to the NCE System December 2016.
Connected to the NCE System December 2016.
Yrs existing DC converted to DCC. Removed and discarded all wiring, unsoldered wires from tracks and remobved all lighting wires. Nothing left when I ran the DCC Bus and installed new Feeders.
The NCE Command Station. Looking at that meter there are only DC scales that I see. There is an AC gauge But the only selections are to the right and left of off, both say DC.
I purchased a DCC Meter from Tony's Train Exchange.
I see it now, let me retest
Something is seriously wrong if you get 10V DC across the rails. An analog meter set to DC reading an AC source should just sit there and quiver, not run uo to 10V. Not on NCE anyway. With Digitrax or Lenz you can use address 0 to run a DC loco and if you have address 0 dialed up to near full speed you'd see somehting like 10V DC, but NCE doesn't do that. ANd iof there is 10V DC across the rails, at the OUPUT of the same EB1 connected to those rails is HAS to be 10V also. All that is in between there would be some wire. If those two readings at least are not the same, then there is something very wrong with the wiring. You DO have BOTH rails gapped with insulated joiners between each section that is controlled with an EB1, right? If the DC version of the layout only had 1 rail gapped - you need to gap BOTH for DCC.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
It's hard to get good help these days.
Ok with the meter set to AC it shows positive 13V on the yard tracks, coming out of the command Station, on the input side of the terminal block, on the input side of the CB's BUT the Mainline CB has only 8V coming out. The other two show no drop from input to output side. At least not easily read on this meter. The mainline tracks read about 8V.
Next - Change out the EB1.
Could that lower voltage cause the problems I've been having?
gdelmoro Next - Change out the EB1.
8V is below what the decoders are required to work on, so it certainly may cause all sorts of erratic operation. I can't see low voltage frying anything, but anything is possible.
Since the others all check ok, definitely replace the mainline EB1 (good thing you have that one you took off the program track!). Something is definitely up with that when the voltage is dropped to 8V AC and it's putting 4V DC on the rails (you had the range selector on 10V DC in that picture, and the neeedle is indicating just about 4V on the scale that goes to 10V max on the right - that's how you read an analog meter).
You guys are GREAT!!!!! Once again I learned a lot. Special thanks to Randy and Rich. ALL Locomotives working fine now. What a weekend! Thought I fried 3 locos. Ordered a back up EB1.
Do you guys use EB1's? Is there a better more reliable one?
gdelmoro You guys are GREAT!!!!! Once again I learned a lot. Special thanks to Randy and Rich. ALL Locomotives working fine now. What a weekend! Thought I fried 3 locos. Ordered a back up EB1. Do you guys use EB1's? Is there a better more reliable one?
Although I love my NCE 5 amp wireless PH-Pro, I do use PSX circuit breakers and PSX-AR auto-reversers. I have no reason to avoid the NCE EB1, but early on I hit upon the PSX units and so I have stuck with them.
I will say this. I am surprised that there was something wrong with the EB1. Send it back to NCE for evaluation and repair. I wonder if you did not completely tighten the screws on the wires of the output side of that EB1. Just a thought.
Screws were and are tight.
I had another EB1 (new) fail another time. Bought from Amazon.
I have 2 PSX-AR's for my reverse loops (not connected yet).
Maybe I'll pick up PSX CB just in case
OK, this whole thread prompted me to attempt to fix my BLI sound problems:
First let me begin by saying I use the MRC Tech 6 (Sound Controller 2.0) to operate dual mode sound and dcc equipped locomotives along with plain jane good ole' DC brass steamers (of course not at the same time--but one or the other). It should be pointed out that BLI wants you to use their proprietary device for operating anything in plain DC mode.
So, I cleaned the track and cleaned the engine and tender wheels thoroughly. I then re-inserted the wire harness in the (brass hybrid 4-12-2) locomotive and made sure it was tight.
The sound dropouts continued when operating in DCC mode. At low speeds the chuff sounds good and the offbeat 3-cylinder exhaust sounds pretty correct. As soon as speed increases the chuff drops out--often--to where there is more total sound silence than chuff, and the brakes squeal repeatedly while the engine is running at a good clip.
Fine: Reset the loco to factory default setting in accordance with the MRC manual. No change. Read BLI manual and reset CV8 to 8 in accordance with Paragon 2 instructions (this is BLI factory reset). Still No Change.
Here's the perplexing part: I then ran the engine (without having touched it or doing anything to it other than twice resetting to factory default settings as described above) in plain DC. The sound worked perfectly. The chuff worked perfectly--did not cut out until very high speed at which point the motor noise starts to drown it out so I can't really be sure the chuff isn't working.
So apparently the problem is not actually with the decoder or chuff sensor, as the engine appears to work just fine in DC mode.
I must conclude that there is something built into the Paragon 2 sound system that does not like the DCC side of the MRC Tech 6. I am willing to bet that this engine would work fine on a regular "real" full-blown DCC system. Of course BLI would want me to purchase the DC Master for operating their models in plain DC mode, rather than for me to use somebody else's system. The problem with that is if I do that then I cannot run somebody else's sound equipped engines...
Also, my son has a BLI GN S-2 4-8-4, and if I recall correctly, the chuff on it drops out while running, too, but again not at lower speeds. Normally, I just turn the sound off, anyway.
Though I'm at a point where I pretty much don't need sound, or smoke, at all, but I do want the lights and class lights...
Anyone have any thoughts or recommendations they wish to share? I'm all ears.
Thank you very much.
And Happy Model Railroading!
John
John, I'm no forum expert by any means but you may want to start a separate thread titled something like MRC Tech6 and BLI. People have to read this whole thread about NEC, power, EB1's and Locomotive decoder problems before they ever get to your post. Only reason I saw it was I was checking to see what the new post was on this thread.