I'm really scratching my noggin over this recent quandry!
My layout has a Digitrax DCS 200 and two DB200 Boosters. This feeds 8 power districts through two PSX-4 breakers.
So...
A few days ago I got one of the new Broadway Limited Paragon 3 PRR Turbines. Using DecoderPro through a RR Cirkits Locobuffer II I changed the address to 6200 on the programming track. Everything was good but I noticed that some of the sound tabs were grayed out in the programming panes of Decoder Pro.
Following some comments by Dinwitty in another thread, he suggested using the Paragon 3 diesel selection in DecoderPro for programming the S2 Turbine.
I did this tonight and everything seemed to be just fine. Put the engine back on the main and it ran without any problems.
THEN, using programming on the main, I wanted to change the bell rate, reduce the sound levels of the bell, whistle and overall sounds.
The acknowledgement— coupler crash— sounded each time I made a change to the sound levels. That's all I changed using on the main programming.
Now, it was time to turn up the throttle and as the 6200 began to move I saw a few other engines in the engine terminal area begin to (try) to move as well
What the blazes caused this I wondered! Not EVERY engine, only some of them.
Off-hand I'd say there is about thirty engines near where I was doing the programming. On one track in particular there was a string of nine different locomotives with decoders from ESU, Digitrax and TCS. Six out of nine of these engines all got their addresses changed to 6200!
Way over on the other side of the layout a pair of Stewart F-7s with Digitrax DH 123 decoders got their addresses changed to 6200 but five engines near them were not affected.
Two identical Proto 2000 NKP berkshires with QSI decoders sat on the same track. ONE got the address changed the other did not.
In a staging yard the same thing happened, three out of twelve engines got re-addressed to 6200! There may be others I have not found yet, I had to search around the layout and look for spinning wheels.
Doing a quick survey, there are about 80 engines on active rails (some are switched off) and, so far, I have eighteen that got re-addressed.
Thanks to Decoder Pro, it was easy to get these engines back "on track" through the saved settings—actually I have only corrected about a third of the affected ones.
Any ideas? Is it possible there is something in the Broadway Paragon 3 decoder that blasted back into the rails or command station?
In 12 years of using Digitrax nothing like this has ever happened. I have never attempted to make an address change on the main. I always select the ONE locomotive I want to make changes to and everything works fine.
Something is really goofy here. It's 2:30 AM here and I'm going to sleep on it. I wondered if any of you have heard of a similar situation...
Thanks, Ed
I'm a newbie to the DCC thing (5 months). But from what I've experienced so far, I've decided to never program on the mainline with other locos present. There seems to be too many possibilities for the digital data to go to/do things it's not *supposed* to do, but does. While there are ceretain standards set forth for DCC, apparently the manufacturers have a lot of leeway to do things their own way, and sometimes what you experienced is the result. IMO it's just safer and more consistent to program on a programing track.
FWIW, I've experienced similar situations on my "stereo" system, which has true all-digital throughput. I very rarely do any updates because one thing seems to change something somewhere else or make it incompatible until I revert the changes somewhere else or do more updates. All a P-I-T-As
I have had a Digitrax DCC system give the same address to every engine that was on a powered track. Someone else here had the same thing happen to their engines.
Never found out how that happened. I just chalked up to Digitrax VooDoo.
I now have an NCE system.
Is your programming track separate and isolated from the rest of the railroad, or is it physically connected?
Normally when other things get their loco numbers changed it's because one truck of the loco to be programmed is on the program track and the other is on the other side of the program track gap. Or you somehow blast programmed the one loco and everything else got changed.
Thanks for the responses, fellas'
Arto, I do 99% of my programming either on the isolated programming track or on the Sprogg I have in the workshop.
BUT when making minor sound changes or especially doing speed-matching it's almost unavoidable to program on the main. I have done it on a limited basis without ever having any hangups. It is nice to be able to change sounds and check the results immediately.
The BLI engine was responding the way it should have, by making the "coupler-crash" sound when I wrote the CV changes to that engine, #6200.
I know what you mean about electronics having a mind of its own. I have heard of horror stories where people would download new firmware and something wouldn't register properly and they wound up with an expensive boat anchor!
SouthPenn, I've been using Digitrax for about twelve years now and, overall, I'm quite satisfied with it and I'm pretty heavily invested in their system on my layout. When I "upgraded" to duplex throttles a little over a year ago it seems like lots of glitches started showing up.
Maxman, Yes, my programming track sits off to the side and there's no physical connection.
The really odd thing about this is, for instance, I had an A-B-B-A set of Genesis F-3s all with Digitrax DH-123 decoders in them sitting on one length of track, a siding. TWO of them had their address changed and the other two weren't affected!
As I mentioned in my original post, the address change was absolutely random.
If I place these engines on the program track and do a read-back, it shows the active address (6200) but none of the other CVs were changed! Momentum, NDOT, lighting effects, etc. all remain unchanged.
NOW I have heard of problems occurring where the UP-5/UR90-92 panels, when connected to track power, have caused problems...
MAYBE this is contributing to my problem as I have all most of mine connected for "track status" indicator LED. I have been meaning to disconnect that status light for a while now but never got around to it.
Perhaps I'll never figure it out and just write it up to a "glitch". A few months ago I got in my truck to leave for work and turned the key and everything was stone DEAD. No lights, starter, nuthin'. Drove the missus' car to work and all the while tried to figure out if it was a fusible link, dead battery, bad relay, whatever.
Got home later that night and just for fun stuck my head in the truck and turned the key... fired right up like nobody's business. Been running fine with nary a hiccup ever since! What gives... gremlins?
Tonight I'll try to do some diagnostics but I don't expect to find a "smoking gun"
Thanks again, Ed
maxman: my programing track is mounted under the layout, on a separate piece of track. I never programed on the main with the Digitrax system; too convoluted.
gmpullman: I had the address problem after I sent my throttle to Digitrax for an upgrade and add radio control.
The addresses changed while two of us were operating the layout.
South Penn,
I suspect you accidentally programmed address 0 and blast programmed every engine on the layout. All DCC systems have this feature'!
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Ed, have you tried a long address other than 6200?
Rich
Alton Junction
jrbernier South Penn, I suspect you accidentally programmed address 0 and blast programmed every engine on the layout. All DCC systems have this feature'!
Some 'feature'!
richhotrainEd, have you tried a long address other than 6200?
For the time being, Rich, I have stepped back and now waiting to have a few hours to devote to looking for clues.
Everything about programming the PRR turbine went just fine. What I plan to do is find out exactly which decoder to choose when using JMRI for programming. Maybe I'll send BLI an email asking them but in past expreience, they don't seem to acknowledge that Decoder Pro even exists.
It was the "collateral damage" that has left me scratching my head and I still suspect that it was the BLI decoder that was somehow "feeding back" data, either through the rails OR through Loconet?
I plan to finally cut the wires on the previously mentioned UP panels as I have heard that having two power sources for them can cause odd behavior. Plus I want to check the Loconet cables to be sure they are well secured and communicating properly.
Once I make these preliminary steps I may try a factory reset on the turbine decoder then carefully reprogram from scratch. I'll get the CV settings presently showing in DP and maybe use my Sprog to do the programming.
SouthPenn:
I had the address problem after I sent my throttle to Digitrax for an upgrade and add radio control.
I did the same thing with two of my DT400s and had them upgraded to DT402D's. They have exhibited odd behavior ever since! I don't know if the glitch is in the throttle or in the "duplex" circuitry but I sure wish I could go back to the old 916.5 MHz radio system. The duplex thing is overrated IMHO and "plugging-in" to select a new address wasn't all that inconvenient.
gmpullman richhotrain Ed, have you tried a long address other than 6200?
richhotrain Ed, have you tried a long address other than 6200?
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/248855.aspx?
I'm not suggesting that this prior issue has anything to do with your current issue, but when I first came upon your thread, I immediately recalled the similarity of the addresses. With the Paragon 2 and Paragon 3 decoders, BLI has somewhat grudgingly acknowledged factory programming issues with these decoders.
Ed,It sounds like your blast programmed 6200 in Ops Mode. My club runs Digitrax as well, and we used to have this problem. It happened 3 times, and it took me an hour each time to reprogram the 40+ engines back to their correct numbers.
Why does it happen? There's a couple different ways. Say you put a loco on the programming track and hit "PROG" on the DT400. Instead of being in "PG" mode, you might be in "Op" mode. And if you have either "00" or "SEL" on the throttle, you might blast every engine with the CV change. Not every engine picks it up, BTW. Some don't seem to take a blast message, perhaps because of dirty track/wheels, capacitors, brand type, etc.
Another reason may be due to the boosters. Digitrax boosters are also command stations. If they are not either programmed to be boosters-only, or if the jumper wire on the front screw terminal is loose, they could theoretically become a command station competing with your DCS200 upon powering up. This can cause strange little operational problems, but it really shows up with programming. With the booster/command stations, they don't have programming tracks...they use the Rail A/Rail B for programming (you're supposed to wire in a switch to change the track back and forth).
Perhaps another reason may be with DecoderPro. If they have a "blast" mode option button/switch, perhaps it was activated?
Our solution at our club was to have another command station that is just used for programming locos and a rule that stated that no one is to program addresses on the mainline on the layout. You can still change other CV's on the main, but not addresses. On my home layout, I learned to be very careful when changing addresses, making sure I was in the right mode.
WRT Digitrax duplex throttles, you have been downloading the updated software for both the DT402D's and the UR92's, right? Also, if you have any unconverted throttles (like DT400's), they should be upgraded to at least DT402 standards and updated to the latest software. There were a lot of software bugs in the original DT402D/UP92 duplex radios, and our club struggled with them until we made sure that all throttles were updated. Many of our problems went away after that.
Digitrax did recommend to us that all "track status" lights be deactivated on all UP5 and other throttle jacks.
South Penn,Yes, it is a feature. I've rescued more than a few decoders at my club that had an unknown address and could not be read or programmed on the programming track (Ops mode only, IOW).
Paul A. Cutler III
Paul3WRT Digitrax duplex throttles, you have been downloading the updated software for both the DT402D's and the UR92's, right?
Actually, no, Paul, I have not updated any firmware. I will look into doing that this week along with disconnecting the track status wiring.
I only have the two DT402Ds that were upgraded by Digitrax probably two years ago. I have three UT4Rs and one UT4D.
This was the first time I've ever had any problems using ops mode programming. I may not have been paying complete attention—I'll never do that again—and the resulting address changes are a mere inconvenience, thankfully only about two dozen locos were affected and with decoderPro it is only a matter of a few minutes to set them back to my original status.
Thanks for your insight. I will take a methodical look at my entire Loconet and booster wiring and I'll certainly update any software for the throttles and UR92s (I have three of them)
I appreciate your reply,
Regards, Ed