My pencil soldering irons have seen better days (they belonged to my dad). I was wondering what a good wattage rating is good for doing decoder work. I like to have one at my work desk and another handy out at the layout. I have the big 100/250 Weller. Just wondering what is good for the finer work, like decoders.
As alway's thanks.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Weller is long well known brand. Get a Weller soldering station. The adjustable heat is very nice. I have been soldering since 1953.
No idea on what kind of tips your irons have but today, most have iron plated tips. No need to file the tips.
I use a Weller WLC100 for some years. No doubt it has been upgraded.
The fine tip conical tip, 50 percent heat for decoder work and the wedge tip, 75 percent heat for track feeders.
There are more expensive brands but having done soldering for NASA years ago, no need for a lot of bells and whistles. This is model railroading. Yeah, I see another PM coming. Lol.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Assuming they're still made, maybe all you need is a new tip (as they do wear out). Probably cheaper than shelling out for a new iron (not that a 25W pencil is "expensive", mind you). Other than "stay away from the super cheap store-brand", you're probably good with any model.
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
Brent,
If You just want to go with an iron. Last month, I picked up this 25 watt Weller pencil tip, from Sears, 15.00, I like the built in LED's to light up the work:
http://www.sears.com/weller-standard-duty-led-soldering-iron-kit-25/p-00941236000P?prdNo=4&blockNo=4&blockType
Take Care!
Frank
A true temperature controlled station is well worth it - not only does the tip last forever since it isn't constantly overehated, this also leads to easier and cleaner soldering.
I have a Xytronics. It's under $50 and is a true temperature controlled unit. The current model is I believe the 389D and now has a digital readout of the set temp instead of just a knob like mine. Have to watch with Weller, the ones that have a base with a knob and then the actual iron plugs in to the side of the base with a normal 3 prong (grounded) cord - ie, the iron itself could just plug into a wall outlet - are NOT temperature controlled. A GOOD Weller station is a good tool - it's finding the good ones that is the hard part. Have to link my Weller thread here, not going to go into all that again, but they used to be made in my home town, and always were top quality tools. Weller invented the soldering gun. Once Cooper Industries bought them and several other companies, they slapped the Weller name on everything from cheap junk you cna find at Walmart to high end professional equipment.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I have used a 35W Weller pencil iron that has served me well for over fifteen years now. It was nearly ideal for decoder and rail feeder soldering. I have replaced the tip once or twice and I made one modification to it that paid off in spades...
Before discarding an old vacuum cleaner I cut the cord off to save for future use. While soldering on the layout it always annoyed me that the plug of the Weller would catch on the edge of the layout! The cord I replaced it with was about sixteen feet long and was light gauge and grounded! Perfect to extend the cord on the Weller and no more snags on the benchwork with the bulky plug!
About two years ago I looked into a station type and was sold, like David B, on the Hakko. Sure, there are others out there, but for decoder and PC board work at the bench the Hakko is ideal! Well worth the investment.
http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1412169298&sr=1-1&keywords=hakko+soldering+station
Be sure to get a sturdy stand for whatever iron you choose. I even added extra weight to the bottom of my stand to make it more stable. Catching a hot iron or smelling melting ties is no way to enjoy model railroading!
http://www.amazon.com/Science-Purchase-Soldering-Iron-Holder/dp/B0002LLWEU/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1412169358&sr=1-1&keywords=soldering+stand
Good Luck, Ed
rrinker I have a Xytronics. It's under $50 and is a true temperature controlled unit. The current model is I believe the 389D and now has a digital readout of the set temp
LION will second this. It is what him bought. $50.00 is not all that much (the abbot did not even flinch when I asked to buy one). Given the number of tips that I went through with the older irons, not to mention wrecking the irons when I tried to remove a hot tip, this unit has truly paid for itself.
LION used sheap store irons and such, and would burn the tips up in about a week or maybe two, then him be soldering with a blunt insturment until him needed a fine tip and replaced it.
Problem LION finds with the Xytronics, is that the cord between the unit and the tip is far too short. LION builded a stand for his station, and put outlets every 5 feet along the layout. now him has no problems at all. [Yeah Right].
OK, so maybe you do not have an old music stand to convert to this purpose, but these are ubiquitous enough that you should be able to find one or something else like unto it.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
rrinkerHave to watch with Weller, the ones that have a base with a knob and then the actual iron plugs in to the side of the base with a normal 3 prong (grounded) cord - ie, the iron itself could just plug into a wall outlet - are NOT temperature controlled.
I've seen this comment before. So for those of us that don't know, exactly what function does the knob serve on this style unit?
maxmanI've seen this comment before. So for those of us that don't know, exactly what function does the knob serve on this style unit?
The knob, like the buttons on my unit, sets the temperature of the unit. Since I have no particular reason for using any particular temperature, I just set it at 550.
If you were building a brass model you would want to have different kinds of solder, using the hotter solder for the first items assembeled and moving the temp downward as you add details, adjusting the iron as you go, so that you will not unsolder your previous work as you add new details.
Other than that, some IC chips or LEDs may require lower temperatures so that you do not burn them out, while you may want a hotter temperature to solder to a heaver bus wire.
But if for no other reason, do as I, and set any resonable temperature that works for you, and the iron will not overheat and thus destroy the tips.
Here is a photo of my automation system. Note the cheap yellow soldering iron held in a magnetic holder in the upper right corner. Behind board is a metal pipe to protect wires and such from the hot tip that extends through the board. I thought it was a good idea, but it killed tips very fast.
http://www.zoro.com/i/G3124502/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=LT5_Welding%20Electric%20Soldering%20Tools&utm_term=WELLER%20WTCPT.
I have been using one of these for many years. Variable at 600, 700, and 800 degrees. best
A soldering station it is. I am glad I posted the question (I wasn't going to) The prices are a lot less than I thought they would be, about the same as half a tank of diesel for the truck. "Chump change".
My Dads soldering irons are so old they have the look and feel of bakelite on them. I remember building Heathkits and Dynaco stereo equipment with him way back in the early 60s. They are now bound for the recycle bin.
Thanks all.
maxman rrinker Have to watch with Weller, the ones that have a base with a knob and then the actual iron plugs in to the side of the base with a normal 3 prong (grounded) cord - ie, the iron itself could just plug into a wall outlet - are NOT temperature controlled. I've seen this comment before. So for those of us that don't know, exactly what function does the knob serve on this style unit?
rrinker Have to watch with Weller, the ones that have a base with a knob and then the actual iron plugs in to the side of the base with a normal 3 prong (grounded) cord - ie, the iron itself could just plug into a wall outlet - are NOT temperature controlled.
It reduces the total power going to the iron - it is essentially the same thing as the old external variable speed box for a Dremel. So instead of buying a 15 watt, 25 watt, 35 watt, 45 watt, and 60 watt iron, you have one that is all those and anywhere in between. But as long as the power is on, it keeps heating, and even 15 watts into a fin tip can get the tip temperature up well beyond what is needed to solder. The hotter the tip, the more quickly it oxidizes and pits. The more oxidized it is, the less heat transfers when you hold it against what you are trying to solder, so you have to hold it on longer. Increasing the chances of melting something. Dirty and oxidized tips are why people end up melting ties when soldering - in fact that one Video Plus video of David Popp soldering some feeders or something, that soldering iron he was using was HORRIBLY dirty, and frankly I'm surprised he got a good joint, since he was melting the solder ont he tip not against the track and wire.
When I solder rail joints, before slipping on the joiner I put some paste flux in it. Just a little dab, not all goopy. I use a water-based product called Supersafe. Put the joiner on, connect the other track piece. With a clean iron, I apply it near the middle of the joint so both rails and the joiner get heated, you will hear the flux sizzle away, and then apply solder to the joint area, not the iron tip. It will wick in around and under the rail. Oh yeah, iron on the inside, runnign side, apply solder to the outside. Usually have to slide the iron back and forth along the length of the joiner. But I don;t put any track gauges or forcepts or wet towels around it and I have yet to melt a tie.
Keeping the tip clean is the key - the Xytronics stations come with one of the nicest holders I have ever seen, heavy base so t doesn;t tip, and the real key - the copper scouring pad (like a steel pot scrubber, but copper so it doesn't damage teh soft plating on the iron tip). It cleans much more effectively AND doesn;t cool off the iron like using the wet sponge most of the others come with. To this, I also use a tin of tip tinner - basically the material is sal ammoniac, comes in a little tin, the one I got has a piece of double-sided tape ont he bottom so you can stick it to the stand - it's a small thing and easily knocked ont he floor otherwise. Radio Shack has it, as do some other places. You simply press the hot iron into it and it removes the oxidation. Very little gets consumed by this - I've had the same tin (it's REALLY small, about the size of a quarter in diameter and maybe 6 quarters high) for 6 years now. You don;t leave the tip in for long, just a quick twirl - and eve more so than solder fumes, don;t breath this stuff. Notice the 'ammoniac' part of the name - smells like a bunch of cats made a mess if you keep at it too long. What you get is a bright shiny tip. With a temperature controlled iron, you can make multipel joints before you have to clean it off again, soon as you start seeing anything less than bright shiny. Even with a conventional iron, just keeping it clean will improve your soldering by a LOT. Clean tips transfer heat the fastest, so you can apply heat, melt the solder, adn get out before anything else melts. And you don;t have to press hard so that things go shooting across the table. I've been soldering things for a LONG time, and I thought I was pretty good with regular soldering irons. First time I used the Xytronics, I kicked myself for not buying something like this MANY years ago. You can;t blame a poor job on your tools, but the right tool makes a LOT of difference.
Randy, I am assuming that for track a high temp is best, so you are in and out as fast as possible and for soldering fine decoder wires a lower temp is all that is needed?
I got one of these from Maker Shed a couple of years ago and I am quite happy with it.
http://www.makershed.com/products/variable-temperature-soldering-station-5-40-watt
It takes a bit of time to heat up but that isn't any big deal. I only use it for decoder/LED work. It comes with a variety of tips. (EDIT: Other tips are now sold separately). I have only used the pencil tip and after two years it is showing no signs of wear.
Some of the reviews are negative but I would certainly give it full marks for the price.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
BATMAN Randy, I am assuming that for track a high temp is best, so you are in and out as fast as possible and for soldering fine decoder wires a lower temp is all that is needed?
Typically, yes. The larger the items being soldered, the more heat you nned to keep it from all bleeding away. In practice I don;t fiddle with it too much, except when I know it will be a while before I am ready to solder the next bunch of connections, I will turn it all the way down (as opposed to off - it only takes a few seconds to get back up to temperature from the lowest to the middle setting, vs a couple of minutes from cold power off). This helps keep the tip clean as well. And the other benefit - on the lowest setting it will shrink heat shrink tube without melting it. As in, I can make direct contact with the tip to shrink it, and unless I hold it there for an extended period of time, it just shrinks, it doesn;t melt and make a sticky mess all over the tip. Have to be smart about it, if you just turned it down, it takes a while to cool down, but once running at the lower setting, shrink away. Easier than trying to use a heat gun on a decoder.
hon30critterSome of the reviews are negative but I would certainly give it full marks for the price.
Yes there is an issue with my soldering iron. When I used the el-cheapos, the tip was electronically isolated, and I could solder on energised circuits. With the soldering station the tip is grounded. It will shor out any enrgized circuit that I apply it to. I did not expect that. I must always remember to shutdown the power before working on the circuits.
That is probably the way things are *supposed* to be done, but I am used to soldering on energised circuits.
Even in the Navy, I never have, and probably never will, soldered an energized circuit.
Is there a prayer for protecting the circuit components when you do that?
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Here's my next question. I still have lots of spools of solder left over from dear old Dad. Can you get dfferent solders that melt at different temperatures?
BATMAN Here's my next question. I still have lots of spools of solder left over from dear old Dad. Can you get dfferent solders that melt at different temperatures?
Yep, though most all the Radioshack (or similar) electronics solders will melt at roughly the same (low) temperature (check the spool though).
In order to get higher melt temps, you might have to buy new spools (or sticks, as the case may be) from Micromark, or other supplier.
Edit -- although, unless you're scratchbuilding something with several solder joints in close proximity, using all "low temp" solder is probably fine for a project.
Handlaid turnout on PCB ties -> lowtemp solder is probably fine for the whole thing (there's enough distance that if you're melting off rail -> PCB tie joints when trying to attach feeders, you're using too much heat / too big of an iron).
Scratchbuilt locomotive -> high temp solder for the main body stuff (e.g. boiler, cab, etc), medium for "large" detail (domes, detail part sub-assemblies, or bigger detail parts, like the air tanks), and then low for attaching the fine detail parts (hoses/pipes/handrails/etc).
Not sure which way you want to go...the ROHS stuff is lead free, and needs More Heat before it goes off.
But I have a feeling you are looking for much lower melting points.?
kenny dorham But I have a feeling you are looking for much lower melting points.?
The way I see it is, if you had solder with a low melting point, wouldn't it make it easier to solder track without melting ties?
Phoebe VetIs there a prayer for protecting the circuit components when you do that?
Not needed. LIONS use NAILS for binding posts, and big clunky relays that go CLICK if not THUNK when you pull them. LIONS do not go for that fragile fancy stuff.
Other benfit to a grounded iron is that is dissipates electrostatic charges so you don't zap a component you are trying to solder. Not a problem with most of the larger things we work on, but possibly a decoder, or if you build signal circuits or other electronic circuits and solder directly to components instead of using sockets, it's not a bad feature to have.
Since I suspect it will soon be tough to get lead solder without special permits, I picked up a couple of large spools of it. Old soder should be fine - just make sure it is not acid core, commonly used for plumbing. It's ok in places you can wash the part after soldering, like a loco boiler, or where electricity is not flowing through the joint, again, like a loco boiler, but electricty and resdual acid flux will quickly corrode a joint. You want only rosin core solder for electrical work. The other possible issue is, old solder may be a fairly large diameter - for big joints like a feeder wire to a buis, no problem, but when working with tiny decoder wires and small parts - you want some of the thinner solder. Mine's .015, but I also have some .062 to work on the big joints (the ones I usually solder with the big soldering gun). A 1 pound spool of .015 solder is a) to heavy to work with directly and B) too messy to work with directly. What I use is the little plastic tube with cap that came witht he Fast Tracks turnout kit I bought, and just refill it as needed. It's small, light, easy to hold, and the small hole in the lid to feed the solder through keeps it pretty steady
BATMAN kenny dorham But I have a feeling you are looking for much lower melting points.? The way I see it is, if you had solder with a low melting point, wouldn't it make it easier to solder track without melting ties?
I hear you...it would be "good" for all kinds of situ.
Soldering tiny PCB, with razor thin traces that lift at the mere sight of an iron.
I guess the trick is to find "stuff" that melts at "low" temperatures...conducts electrons, and is not itself at risk of failing/softening if placed in a Warm/Hot environment.
I am sure there is a Pot Of Gold waiting for the guy (or gal) that designs a good quality solder with a melting point of 300 degrees.
I always hate having to desolder ROHS solder on a thin PCB. Some of these modern day builds just a bout require a special desolder staion to do the rework. I wish I had one.
Hobbys are Cheap, Fun, and Easy .....
kenny dorham I am sure there is a Pot Of Gold waiting for the guy (or gal) that designs a good quality solder with a melting point of 300 degrees.
I use the high temp dual temp Weller for heavy soldering like on the main buss wires where Im joining a 12 guage strand to strand wire. I use the dual powered pencil tip from canadian tire ( yes I'm Canadian ) for doing all other rail feeder wires etc. http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-solder-station-0586301p.html#.VC5z4m8g95g
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
LION just googled information on the melting point of plastics. Most of those melting points were for injection molding of plastic and not for the destruction of railroad ties. Your best practice would be to learn proper soldering to thracks so that your iron is on the rail long enough to melt the solder but not to sistort the tie. Depending on the plastic used the melting points might be similar. A heat sink is a good idea, but that will cool the rail you are trying to solder. But it will draw heat away from the plastic ties.
LION has gotten pretty good at soldering rails without damaging ties, so yes, it can be done.
On the other Paw... LION really does not care if ties melt a little bit. Ain't nobody going to notice that anyway. And besides, have you ever seen damaged ties on a railroad? As long as the gauge remains correct (enough for the trains to pass) you should be ok. If it is perfection you want, then you are clearly NOT a LION.
NeO6874 kenny dorham I am sure there is a Pot Of Gold waiting for the guy (or gal) that designs a good quality solder with a melting point of 300 degrees. Ask and ye shall receive Works well, and melts at ~300 degrees, but is more "specialty" than anything (due to amount / price) . Plain 0.062 solder from RS (Lead-bearing or not) will work for most everything we typically run into though.
I have the patience of a 2 year old.....do they talk about That Solder somewhere in there.?
I see them using it for joining metals.....is it conductive.?
My next problem would be getting an iron that hit as low as 300-350 degrees.
I guess I need more tools...
kenny dorham I have the patience of a 2 year old.....do they talk about That Solder somewhere in there.? I see them using it for joining metals.....is it conductive.?
All metals are conductive, to varying degrees. Thing is, solder is more a mechanical connector than an electrical one (yes, in some instances it does a bit of both, but its primary purpose is "keep these two parts attached")
Silver (according to Wikipedia) is ever so slightly more conductive than Copper, and it's far more conductive than lead or tin.
Quick chart I found online
And you can see why that steel Bachmann, Life Like, and Tyco track was so horrible, even compared to brass. 1/10th the conductivity, depending on the composition. And why aluminum was short-lived as a replacement for copper house wiring.