Heck, just temporarily cover the area with a small piece of masking tape, stick the frog back on, and see if the short (sparking) goes away.
Rich
Alton Junction
NittanyLion Now, if I'm interpretting what everyone's told me, there should be no exposed metal of any kind in the, uh, sub-frog, right? In the sub-frog, there's four circles cast into the plastic. I assume some sort of alignment system for the frog. One of these is partially hollow and there's a tiny little finger of metal sticking up in there. On the matching circle on the base of the frog, there's some metal flash sticking down into the hole. If I file off that flash and plug that hole, everything should be good, right?
Now, if I'm interpretting what everyone's told me, there should be no exposed metal of any kind in the, uh, sub-frog, right? In the sub-frog, there's four circles cast into the plastic. I assume some sort of alignment system for the frog. One of these is partially hollow and there's a tiny little finger of metal sticking up in there. On the matching circle on the base of the frog, there's some metal flash sticking down into the hole.
If I file off that flash and plug that hole, everything should be good, right?
Yes, the permanent fix would be to remove any metal flash, then apply a coat of 2-part epoxy, smooth it out, let it set, then replace the frog.
As I look at the "sub-frog" on my turnout, it is smooth, no sign of any metal. Given that yours has some metal flash, and that hollow area, apparently something went wrong during the casting/molding process.
I actually found putting the frog back in harder than getting it out! It just didn't want to seat right.
I filed the little flash off and put a tiny dab of Squadron putty in the hole. I did file the bottom of the frog a bit just to get it to be level with the railhead again.
Success! Not even the tiny little blue sparks. I think it might even be a smoother ride after filing the frog down a teeny bit. I'm going to test it a bit more on the bench before installing it, but I think it's all good.
Thanks a lot for the help with this. Saved me a bit of money and got to learn a thing or two.
I am curious though. Had I been using powered frogs, would this problem ever actually revealed itself or would it have been a maddeningly difficult problem to find?
NittanyLion I actually found putting the frog back in harder than getting it out! It just didn't want to seat right.
NittanyLion I am curious though. Had I been using powered frogs, would this problem ever actually revealed itself or would it have been a maddeningly difficult problem to find?
In effect, the frog was powered, but not correctly.
To try and answer your question, it would depend upon the brand and type of turnout and how it was powered.
If it were a Peco Electrofrog, the frog would not be isolated, and it would be powered by the power routing feature of the point rails. So, there wouldn't be a jumper problem to deal with.
On the other hand, if you were intentionally trying to power the frog on an Atlas Custom Line turnout, the frog is supposed to be isolated, but the metal flash would interfere, and I would think that it would be a difficult problem to uncover.
NittanyLion Success! Not even the tiny little blue sparks. I think it might even be a smoother ride after filing the frog down a teeny bit. I'm going to test it a bit more on the bench before installing it, but I think it's all good. Thanks a lot for the help with this. Saved me a bit of money and got to learn a thing or two.
It takes a bit of nerve to tackle a balky turnout, but you did good.
A lot of views on this thread, so I am sure that your issue was of interest to a lot of others as well.
Great detective work Nittany Lion and Rich. This is a keeper thread. It can save a lot of frustration for those of us who use Atlas turnouts.
Joe
Another thing about generating the sparks. All my Athearn locos were spark generators due to the sintered metal wheels. Bright Orange sparks. Changing the wheels to NWSL Nickel Silver wheels eliminated the sparking completely.
Yup, that piece of metal sticking up through the alignment nub was from one of the connections between the closure rail and diverging frog rail. Definitely should not be there, and with it touching the frog, the frog was electrically connected to one of the closure rails, and thus one of the stock rails (at the hinge point, you will see that there is a tab of metal that the point rails are riveted to,a dn that little tab goes under the adjacent stock rail). So, all was fine when you run through the turnout one way, where the frog is the correct polarity. Run through the other way though, adn you have a wheel coming off the closure rail that's say the left rail, touching the frog that is (mistakenly) connected to the right rail. Dead short. The reason there wasn;t a continuous short, ie, short as soon as you applied power to teh rails, is that the OTHER gaps in the frog were all fine - the ones between the closure rail and frog, adn frog and diverging rails.
The NWSL wheels really help the old Blue Box locos. Cuts down on raw pulling power, but MUCH better electrical contact and they don;t get as dirty as fast. I've had BB locos where there was a bit missing on one of the wheels even, guess the sintering mold didn;t fill up. Looked like someone took a bite out of it. Mine was missing a chunk on he flange - if I was unlucky to have that particualr spot of the wheel come around right at a turnout pount, it would pick the points every time. The newer stuff all comes with nickel plated wheels so this isn't such a big deal unless you run them so long that the plating wears off, then it's time for new wheels.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hey NittanyLion, first thanks for posting about this topic. I think I am having a similar problem as well (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2xUM1lWRow) does this spark look similar to what you were seeing? It only happens on the through route, and doesn't happen when going in reverse? Thanks!
nicholasleby Hey NittanyLion, first thanks for posting about this topic. I think I am having a similar problem as well (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2xUM1lWRow) does this spark look similar to what you were seeing? It only happens on the through route, and doesn't happen when going in reverse? Thanks!
What type of turnout do you have?