yvesmary Rich, Yes, it sounded like your layout was just a bit bigger than mine. I've got two levels connected by a helix in a space roughly 20 X 20. I was wondering how many boosters I might need especially in my engine terminal where I plan to have a lot of locos sitting around. I wouldn't be running many trains but might have to move a lot of locos to get the unit(s) I want. I have a peninsula in the middle coming out from both levels. I was thinking of putting the antenna on the ceiling over the peninsulas. Would there be a dead spot on the bottom peninsula? I was also concerned about batteries for the throttle. Sometimes weeks go by when I don't have time to run trains and when I do I hate it when the batteries are dead or dying. Do you remove them? My little digital camera takes 4 AA's. If I leave them in there and don't use it for awhile it seems that I only get a few pictures before they go dead. Rechargeables are the worst. I can charge up a extra set but when you go to use them weeks or months later they're dead. And they take forever to charge up. Thanks for your reply. Yves Ponoka, Alberta
Rich,
Yes, it sounded like your layout was just a bit bigger than mine. I've got two levels connected by a helix in a space roughly 20 X 20.
I was wondering how many boosters I might need especially in my engine terminal where I plan to have a lot of locos sitting around. I wouldn't be running many trains but might have to move a lot of locos to get the unit(s) I want.
I have a peninsula in the middle coming out from both levels. I was thinking of putting the antenna on the ceiling over the peninsulas. Would there be a dead spot on the bottom peninsula?
I was also concerned about batteries for the throttle. Sometimes weeks go by when I don't have time to run trains and when I do I hate it when the batteries are dead or dying. Do you remove them? My little digital camera takes 4 AA's. If I leave them in there and don't use it for awhile it seems that I only get a few pictures before they go dead. Rechargeables are the worst. I can charge up a extra set but when you go to use them weeks or months later they're dead. And they take forever to charge up.
Thanks for your reply.
Yves
Ponoka, Alberta
Yves, with a 20' x 20' layout on two levels and a lot of loco action, you could justify two boosters, one in the command station and one additional booster, a DB5 or an SB5. My power requirements did not truly warrant a second booster, but when I decided to split the layout into a series of separate power districts, I added the second booster for convenience as much as anything. It just made maintenance and diagnostics that much easier.
I leave my wireless base station and antenna at layout surface level, but I plan to move it to the basement ceiling for even better reception, especially when Programming on the Main. You should not experience any dead spots with the arrangement that you describe.
I do not remove the batteries from the throttles when not in use. Each ProCab throttle takes 4 AAA batteries. I track battery life on a piece of tape on each of my two throttles. I went down to take a look. The average battery life ranges from 9 months to 12 months. I just toss them and replace them, no rechargeables for me.
I use PSX circuit breakers and PSX-AR reversers from DCC Specialties. I run three power districts, each protected by a PSX circuit breaker, on one booster. The other booster protects an additional power district protected by a fourth PSX, plus three reversing sections each protected by a PSX-AR.
Rich
Alton Junction
Rich, thanks for all the info.
I use the PSX-AR on my reverse loops but I've never added any PSX circuit breakers.
Running trains by myself, do I really need to add circuit breakers?
Yves,
Rich will be back, but until then I'll also sing the praises of NCE.His opinion on the circuit breakers etc may be different, too. I find them useful, but I run 2 or 3 trains at once often enough, plus have ops sessions with half a dozen others enough to make it worthwhile. It's really not so much the expense of buying them as it is the hassle of rewiring your power feeds so they each feed a discrete zone via each CB. Well worth it for me.
Mind you, if you have tried it and the NCE just worked better for you, it's a common experience. Not so much because one is inherently better than the other, but because you either relate to the equipment or not. Some folks are Digitrax people and some are NCE...or something else. But this is an area where your preferences are really important to just feeling comfortable with it, so this is very important. It's also not a diss on anyone else's system.
Yeah, if it's just you, the need for breakers is less than it would automatically be with more ops. Just not so many folks getting into trouble. On the other hand, depending on your operating tastes, the state of your track, and how many trains you might be able to runs simultaneously, there's still potential for shorts. Circuit breakers simply slice the layout into smaller sections, so that when a short triggers a shutdown, the neighboring zones aren't affected. If you'll only ever run 1 to 3 trains, less need for the CBs. If the shorts from what you run don't interfere with your other trains yet, then you're probably good without them.
But it's also the case that if you have that limited a demand, then the command station and an extra 5 amp booster are likely more than enough juice. Unless you have multiple trains running under heavy load, you'll never need the third booster. This simplifies your bus wiring some if that's still an issue, if you can locate the two -- command station and booster in the middle of things, run a bus one way from one and the other way from the other. If you're like me and already have a long continuous bus (I had two DC busses and just used one for DCC), then it's easy to cut it in the middle to do this, so requires little modification usuaully to your existing set-up.
One option is to just go with the command station for now, put it in the middle and feed the bus as a T. Then all that's needed is to install a booster and split the bus when you're ready for the upgrade.
As for wireless, well worth it IMO. I still have a wired network for emregency plugin and to suppport use of my non-radio PowerCab, but I never find a need for the emergency plug in really. The NCE wireless has been absolutely bullet-proof for me since they did the big upgrade about 5 years back. No worries about investing in it and going cordless is great.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Well said, Mike.
I pretty much agree with everything you said.
yvesmary Rich, thanks for all the info. I use the PSX-AR on my reverse loops but I've never added any PSX circuit breakers. Running trains by myself, do I really need to add circuit breakers? Yves
For years, I ran my lone wolf layout with an NCE PH-Pro 5 amp system with a single booster, no circuit breakers, and a tethered throttle arrangement.
But, I experienced a lot of problems and a lot frustrations. Although I operate as a lone wolf, I try to run a lot of locos and a lot of trains at one time. My layout measures 25' x 42' and is set up in an open-P arrangement. It is a double mainline, continuous loop with a large freight yard and engine servicing facility, a large downtown passenger station with an adjacent coach yard, and several sidings and spurs. There are four reversing sections on the layout, designed to reverse the directions of trains to simulate the actual movement of trains arriving and departing from points east and west into a freelanced Chicago-type setting.
The main problem that I encountered with this original setup was the complete stoppage of everything on the layout when an isolated derailment and/or short occurred somewhere on the layout. I had to locate the derailment or short, unplug the throttle from its location and plug it back in at the site of the derailment or short to get everything moving once again.
So, the first thing that I did was to add a wireless base station and antenna to free myself from the annoyances and limitations of a tethered system. What a tremendous advancement. I never looked back.
More recently, I decided to isolate derailments once and for all and keep the trains moving elsewhere on the layout once and for all. So, I divided the layout into four separate power districts, the mainlines, the engine servicing facility, the downtown passenger station/coach yard, and a diesel servicing facility, each power district protected by a PSX circuit breaker.
That, in and of itself, was a major improvement, in that a derailment or short in one power district was easily isolated and readily located without stopping the movement of trains operating on the mainlines.
The reason that I added a second booster was that I wanted to further isolate the four reversing sections. Each reversing section on my layout is a section of track controlled by a PSX-AR, so I made each reversing section into its own power district. That works because the PSX-AR acts as both an auto-reverser and a circuit breaker. To provide better power distribution, I added the second booster and wired the three reversing sections, controlled by PSX-AR units, to the second booster.
The entire system operates flawlessly.
Rich and Mike,
Thanks for the advice. I'll probably add Circuit Breakers as you suggest.
So I went ahead and ordered the wireless system from the DCC Shop in Idaho. They're closest to me so the shipping was a lot less than from any other.
One last question. I want to add a booster and looking at the PB105 which is still available on many sites. Since I don't need a power supply it's a lot cheaper than the PB5 that comes with a power supply. Otherwise are they the same?
Cheers,
The PB5 is the same booster as the PB105. The PB5 in fact replaces the PB105. Although the PB5 appears more expensive than the PB105, the PB5 includes its own power supply so it is actually cheaper than the PB105. If you already have a power supply, then buy the PB105 if you can still find it.
So, about all that Digitrax stuff you won't be needing...
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Name your price, Randy !
Priceline - not just for airlines and hotels anymore!
Now, if we could get Shatner to do a model railroading commercial...
I really need to find another dealer shutting down - that's how I got my DT402 and DB150, I bought a Super EMpire Builder Xtra set from a dealer who was retiring, at an amazing closeout price. Since my plan on my last layout was to drive the tracks with the 5 amps and use the 2.5 from my Zephyr to run the accessory decoders. Now that I am filling my basement, eventually, I figure a DCS100 for command station now, not that I will likely run more than 20, let alone 12 locos at once, unless I get op sessions organized. And being a much larger layout with more servo switch motors, a full 5 amps for the stationary decoder buss would probably be good, so DCS100 + 2x DB150, maybe 3 boosters, though I don;t think I will be able to have enough trains moving at once to tax 10 total amps.