Steam on the German DRG...

[detting]

I know that DRG=Colorado Narrow gauge, so take a minute and move your mind half way around the world in an easterly direction.

The DRG was the German State Railway until 1945. I am interested in modeling some of the more interesting camouflage paint schemes that these engines received in 1943-44.

I have tried web searches, and had little luck. Are there any resouces out there that detail the placement of armor plates and the camo patterns for these German steam locomotives available in English?

I have a static model of a BR-50 that will be the beneficiary of any help that you can provide. Thank you all...

Mike

[jrbarney]

Mike,
I assume that you've already reviewed the 65 pages devoted to war equipment in the 2004 Walthers HO catalogue and found that there were no locomotives there. You might want to Google search for a Roco/E-R Models web site to determine if they have DRG wartime locos that are not imported to the USA.
Our local Hobbytown USA has a fairly extensive group of war diorama how-to publications and there may be some locomotives buried in current or back-issue copies, although I haven't looked. Perhaps you could post a notice at your LHS seeking knowledgeable war modelers.
The periodicals sections in larger Borders, Barnes & Noble, and other bookstores also have magazines devoted to war modeling. Perhaps you can find a contact at some web site mentioned in one of those magazines.
Bob

[Anonymous]

Arnold made a camoflaged DRG steamer in N scale, not sure if it's still in production.

[jrbarney]

Mike,
Don't know if there is such a Web site, but you might want to try to find a back issue index for Peco's periodical Continental Modeller. Perhaps one of the gentlemen in the UK can help. As to requiring that the source be in English, there are Web sites that offer computer translation of language text, such as:
<http://world.altavista.com>
The results of machine translation are sometimes hilarious, but you would probably be able to grasp the gist of an article. Good luck.
Bob

[detting]

Bob,
My German skill are very weak as in almost non-existant. I have surfed some on the .de sites and gleened some infomation from the pic. The translation utilities do yield some strange results.

Unfortunately, printed material is not as easily translated. There appears to be a large number of German publications that may be useful as well. Let's call "in English" a desire, not a requirement.

Thanks for the tips!
Mike

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbarney

Mike,
Don't know if there is such a Web site, but you might want to try to find a back issue index for Peco's periodical Continental Modeller. Perhaps one of the gentlemen in the UK can help. As to requiring that the source be in English, there are Web sites that offer computer translation of language text, such as:
<http://world.altavista.com>
The results of machine translation are sometimes hilarious, but you would probably be able to grasp the gist of an article. Good luck.
Bob

Sad to say I don't think there is a website for Continental Modeller - at least, not one like the MR website. There's a story (not sure whether it's true or not, but it probably is) going around in UK modelling circles about Railway Modeller (a sister mag to Continental Modeller) asking people not to email them but to write letters the old-fashioned way. I give them about 10-15 years tops if they hold that idea!

[jrbarney]

Detting,
Found a Web site devoted to modern German military railroad equipment, and unfortunately for you (and me), it is in German. However, perhaps they can supply you with some leads on WW 2 DRG armor and camo if you can use a Web machine translation site to change your English language query into some from of corrupted German. The URL is:
<http://www.bundeswehrloks.de>
Bob

[RhB_HJ]

Hi all,

Sorry "corrupted German" won't get you very far (not any more than pidgin English would [;)] ). However if you go to www.google.de and use "Kriegslokomotiven" and "Kriegsloks" as your search subject you get a slew.


http://www.hans-urban.org/

http://members.lycos.co.uk/steamtrains/photos/Kriegslok/index.htm

and with patience you'll find stuff like this








FYI Liliput used to make a BR 05 in camouflage (1977 catalogue, page 8)
Lima had a V188 (two unit diesel) in their 89/90 catalogue

[Supermicha]

There are not many models available today. i think liliput had some in its sortiment. most are made of brass, there are also some complete tank trains, but the prices are far away of good and bad.

@RhB_HJ: the slide of the liliput 05 shows no camouflage painting. it is called "photography paint" and should help to see deatls better on slides of new build locomotives. these slides where used in catlogues and so on.

i have seen some modelers which build war trains for its self, they made cool models, up to the big rail gun "Dora" in HO-Scale, a very imposant model.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Supermicha

There are not many models available today. i think liliput had some in its sortiment. most are made of brass, there are also some complete tank trains, but the prices are far away of good and bad.

@RhB_HJ: the slide of the liliput 05 shows no camouflage painting. it is called "photography paint" and should help to see deatls better on slides of new build locomotives. these slides where used in catlogues and so on.

i have seen some modelers which build war trains for its self, they made cool models, up to the big rail gun "Dora" in HO-Scale, a very imposant model.

Micha,

That is actually a model produced by Arnold, as you can tell by the huge flanges on the trailing truck (Nachlaufdrehgestell), which showed up as a "Kriegslok" in the listings.
Checking in the 96/97 Arnold catalogue shows the correct paintscheme as item 2200.
Well you never know, that "Fotoanstrich" could have been used for camouflage in the NorthAfrican theatre [;)][:o)][:)][:D]

[Supermicha]

no, i didn´t know that. but it sounds good. a white engine in the white desert sand [8D]

[jrbarney]

Mike,
Don't know whether it includes the DRG's BR50, but while searching for something else I ran across a listing for "German Armored Trains, Volume 1," by Sawodny about WW2 trains . The URL is:
<http://www.historicrail.com/historicrail/product_info.po?ID=4472>
It's an 8 1/2 by 11 paperbound selling for $ 9.95 at Historic Rail. There's also a Volume 2, but I couldn't get their search engine to locate it for me. I haven't had any dealings with them, but the price seems reasonable. According to their paper catalogue, their office address is in New Brighton, MN, but don't know if they have a retail store.
Bob

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbarney

Mike,
Don't know if there is such a Web site, but you might want to try to find a back issue index for Peco's periodical Continental Modeller. Perhaps one of the gentlemen in the UK can help. As to requiring that the source be in English, there are Web sites that offer computer translation of language text, such as:
<http://world.altavista.com>
The results of machine translation are sometimes hilarious, but you would probably be able to grasp the gist of an article. Good luck.
Bob

Sad to say I don't think there is a website for Continental Modeller - at least, not one like the MR website. There's a story (not sure whether it's true or not, but it probably is) going around in UK modelling circles about Railway Modeller (a sister mag to Continental Modeller) asking people not to email them but to write letters the old-fashioned way. I give them about 10-15 years tops if they hold that idea!

That's only the half of it. Industry sources told me that Pritchard (PECO, publishers of Continental Modeller et al) refused to accept ads that had either a website or an email address.
They'll be going the way of the dodo bird......at least in the publishing business.

[leighant]

One other factoid that may affect your search. I read somewhere that there is a law and/or policy in Germany against manufacturing or selling any product (and it applied to model trains) with the Nazi Swastika on it, since that would promote nazism. I heard about this when someone wrote a letter about a train manufactured in Nazi insignia and the manufacturer had a fit, denied it, explained the technicalities, etc. This parrticularity of German political correctness may make it difficult to find an authentic model of a wartime train.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by leighant

One other factoid that may affect your search. I read somewhere that there is a law and/or policy in Germany against manufacturing or selling any product (and it applied to model trains) with the Nazi Swastika on it, since that would promote nazism. I heard about this when someone wrote a letter about a train manufactured in Nazi insignia and the manufacturer had a fit, denied it, explained the technicalities, etc. This parrticularity of German political correctness may make it difficult to find an authentic model of a wartime train.

True, but in a pinch you could always use some of the recalled Microsoft fonts to produce your own "correct" swastikas. [}:)][}:)][;)][:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RhB_HJ

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbarney

Mike,
Don't know if there is such a Web site, but you might want to try to find a back issue index for Peco's periodical Continental Modeller. Perhaps one of the gentlemen in the UK can help. As to requiring that the source be in English, there are Web sites that offer computer translation of language text, such as:
<http://world.altavista.com>
The results of machine translation are sometimes hilarious, but you would probably be able to grasp the gist of an article. Good luck.
Bob

Sad to say I don't think there is a website for Continental Modeller - at least, not one like the MR website. There's a story (not sure whether it's true or not, but it probably is) going around in UK modelling circles about Railway Modeller (a sister mag to Continental Modeller) asking people not to email them but to write letters the old-fashioned way. I give them about 10-15 years tops if they hold that idea!

That's only the half of it. Industry sources told me that Pritchard (PECO, publishers of Continental Modeller et al) refused to accept ads that had either a website or an email address.
They'll be going the way of the dodo bird......at least in the publishing business.

That's very bad news. I would suspect the reason for their dislike of websites and emails is due to their readership being mainly composed of the older generation, especially that part of it that regards computers as some kind of strange magic box! Railway Modeller has a great history - it's the British equivelent to MR, and has a similarly long history. Sadly, this may not continue unless they change their policies about the use of emails and web addresses. I'm pretty certain however that they do allow adverts with email addresses and web addresses, I'm sure I've found a few hobby store websites that way.


I'm pretty sure the Lima V188 diesel is still available, though with Lima's financial problems it's a case of buying one while stocks last. It may possibly make a comeback at a later date - there's talk of various companies showing an interest in buying the Lima tooling. www.kittlehobby.com had stocks of it recently, in a set with a large rail gun, a crew car, and a couple of flatcars for about £150. Reference number is 149985 on the Kittle Hobby website under "Lima".

[Anonymous]

The Continental Modeller et al do allow e-mail addresses and URLs in their ads but i don't think there is a UK equivalent of the likes of E-hobbies or internet-trains. They all tend to be real model shops that have a website. usually they are best for telling you roughly what they have but if you want something you are probably best off actually phoning them up.

I always though the RM and CM were rather fuddy-duddy publications with a rather older style. British Railway Modelling accept e-mails for publication but you have to say who you are and where you're from.

Don't forget that the dear MR doesn't accept articles by electronic means either. You have to send a manuscript (and a disk if you want).

they days of technology actually working all the time are not yet upon us. Besides they probably want to keep away the flood of sub-rate stuff that would probably arrive if they made it too easy to submit stuff.

now i'm contradicting myself...sigh

[MStLfan]

Well, Peco, the publishers of both Continental Modeller and Railway Modeller do have a website: www.peco-uk.com. It is not like trains.com.
There are to groups in the UK that deal with German railways: the german railway society and die-alte-zeit-gruppe. The last deals with the DRG. Unfortunately I don't have an address for the latter but the first can be reached via Peter Martin, 45 Parkhurst Road, Torre, Torquay, TQ1 4EW United Kingdom.
Source: Continental Modeller july 2004
Both societies are english speaking but since I have a good knowledge of German, drop me a line if you need some help in translation. I read German railroad magazines frequently but they have almost nothing on the WWII (can't blame them).
Greetings from Rotterdam, the Netherlands
Marc Immeker

[MStLfan]

Alte Zeit Gruppe can be reached via:
Graham Shaw
PO Box 171
Shipley
West Yorkshire
BD18 3WZ United Kingdom
sorry no website in its ad in Continental Modeller for june 2004
You can try www.eisenbahn-kurier.de but they have a site only in German. They have some books about WWII but not much. Haven't seen them so I can't judge them. The German in them could be a problem.
email: [e-mail]
Hope this is of some help to you.
Marc Immeker

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by leighant

One other factoid that may affect your search. I read somewhere that there is a law and/or policy in Germany against manufacturing or selling any product (and it applied to model trains) with the Nazi Swastika on it, since that would promote nazism. I heard about this when someone wrote a letter about a train manufactured in Nazi insignia and the manufacturer had a fit, denied it, explained the technicalities, etc. This parrticularity of German political correctness may make it difficult to find an authentic model of a wartime train.

That´s true.

you will also not find decals with this symbols here and to import them is also not possible.

But, I think that most locomotives run in the normal black or later dark grey paint scheme. I have a book about the 1300 ton railgun DORA at the Krim island in the Sovietunion. The locos are normal blackpainted class 50 2-10-0´s.

[Anonymous]

Hi detting,
if youa re still interested, thereis an net adress www.bundesarchiv.de which may help you. I stores old material back until the foudation of todays GERMANY. Its possible to view in Engli***o. Also there are German and Polish books about camouflging of locomotivrs. From Lima you can get also complete train in camouflage.
Best wishes

[Anonymous]

Verlag Slezak Publish 2 volumes in German Lokomotiven Ziehen in Den Krieg volumes 2 and 3. I would reccomend Slezak's books without hesitation.

All the best

Kevin
http://www.erlebnisbahn.at/slezak/

[Anonymous]

http://www.euro-trains.com/rei/rei_wartrains.asp
Maybe this will help.

[Anonymous]

The original Altezeitgruppe was founded to support modelling the DRG and the website can be found at www.altezeitgruppe.com. I founded the group in 1987 but in the mid 90s the name was re-cycled become 'Alte-Zeit-Gruppe' run by a Mr Shaw and his friends from the GRS. As a result of this we changed our name to Die Reichsbahn Gruppe as we wanted no comparison or connection with ourselves and the GRS and Mr Shaw's group but as we had developed our internet site we retained the URL address.

The simple difference between the two groups is that we have evolved into an internet based group whilst neither the GRS or Shaw's Alte-Zeit-Gruppe. have any appreciable internet presence.

With over 25,000 annual visitors, we have become one of the pre-eminent English language websites on the internet for modellers of German railways. In the past four years, we have picked up awards for the realism of our layout, exhibited and lectured across Europe, been featured in the major railway modelling magazines in Germany, selected NMRA webmaster's 'website of the month' and finally, have been accepted to take part in the World's Greatest Hobby program. Our layouts have been shown at major exhibitions for the past 20 years throughout Europe and have recently been featured in Continental Modeller Nov 04, Rail Magazine July/Aug 03 and Eisenbahn Journal May 04.

I am suprised that Marc Immeker did not understand the true relationship between the GRS and Mr Shaw's group, we have just returned from our second visit to the Nederlands, this time for Rail2004. Next year we will be centre stage (again) at Intermodellbau'05 in Dortmund.

Please come and visit a proper English language website for modellers of the Deutsche Reichsbahn at http://www.altezeitgruppe.com

Tim Hale
Founder of the original Altezeitgruppe

[M636C]

There is a book, probably now out of print called "Steel Rails to Victory" by Ron Ziel which reproduced a number of interesting German WWII era photos, including some of armoured and camouflaged locomotives, among many other interesting scenes. Ironically, this book written by a resident of New York state was translated into German as "Raeder Muessen Rollen".

Eisenbahn Kurier publish a huge two volume book on the class 50 2-10-0 which might include suitable photos. I only have volume II, which has quite reasonable coverage of wartime built locomotives and some of the modifications to allow operation in the cold Russian winters. I don't recall armour, but it might be shown. I believe that the later class 50 locomotives were built painted in a dark grey rather than black.

Peter