Modern communication lines capable of carrying multiple circuits also were transposed. The lines that I see along the UP and former CNW in eastern Nebraska and western Iowa, some I don't think are maintained but still up, have some lines transposed about every 10 poles. There is a x shaped fixture with 4 insulators on the crossarm for this.
Jeff
Just a couple of comments to tie off some of the loose ends:
Three phase AC lines do the "let's swap positions" thing. You might see one wire rise up to a separate insulator (pole mounted,) then another wire pass under it between poles, then the first wire drop back down, almost always on the opposite side of the pole from where it started.
Pre-radio, there were frequently two bare wires mounted on pole-mounted insulators below everything else. A conductor of a train in trouble could clip his telephone (or, earlier, portable telegraph unit) to them, and thereby establish communication with the nearest station.
When the rails entered a tunnel, the pole line usually went over the mountain. If there was some problem in the tunnel, the communications lines would remain intact. In the early days, that was the ONLY communications line!
Likewise, when the rails crossed a bridge, every reasonable effort would be made to disconnect the wires from the bridge structure to prevent loss of communications if something happened to the bridge. This might include stretching the wires completely across the river or gorge (sometimes with "flying crossarms" to keep the wires separated if the span was long enough) or putting poles out on the ends of extended masonry piers well away from the bridge structure.
Chuck
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
AAARGH! I have stuff on this... but I can't find it.
For a start... How would you feel about having a tickle of mains voltage run through your telephone?
This gives the simple solution that power lines are usually kept seperate from all other lines - except where the power lines are insulated - - and where one crosses the other a sleeve may be provided on one or both...
When looking at pics power lines sit on different insulating pots from communication and other lines. Power cable is also heavier for the most part so the fittings carrying it are heavier and stretch less distance from the post or wall... don't forget that all cables may be bracketed from walls.
Also... all cables need to solve the issues of tunnels and bridges... both where the track/pole line run over the bridge and under the bridge. The best thing I can suggest is to study as many pics as you can find. Don't forget that a lot of pole line poles and other fittings get left in place long after the cables have been salvaged for scrap or rotted and dropped off (when the cost of salvage is too high).
There have been articles in both the real RR press and the model press... one at least in RMC if i recall correctly.
I can't recall whether it is power or comms lines but over long distances the engineers switch the cables around so that they do not set up frquency interference between themselves.
it's also worth looking at how the cables are jumped around the posts at corners and junctions.
Sorry this can't be more specific. I will try to find the copies I have. hope it helps as a guide for what to look for.
and then...
Part of the solution is to answer the questions...
This is very era specific. Don't forget a lot of outlaying RR facilities didn't have mains electricity even up to abandonment.
The very first poles along railroads were telegraph poles since the telephone hadn't been invented yet; and switches were operated manually since electrical motors were still not as reliable or economical as human muscles.
As for who owns the poles carrying both communication and power lines... I can say that in Québec, the power company (Hydro-Québec) and the phone company divided the province up into different districts. In each district, one or the other owns the poles. This way there would be no arguing over who is responsible for repairing a broken pole. When cable television came into a region, they sometimes had their own poles, or paid the owners of the poles for the right to string their wires on the poles.
I would imagine that the railroad company owns the poles along its rights of way, leasing "line rights" to other companies (power, telephone/telegraph, etc). It is also possible that (in the early days of railroads) the telegraph company owned the poles, while paying the railroad company for the right to put poles alongside the tracks. Such agreements would be mutually beneficial. The railroad would have access to telegraph/telephone communications, and the telegraph/telephone company would have an easier time building and maintaining their lines. Of course, often the telegraph/telephone companies were owned (at least partially) by the railroad company.
I thought about a "general rule" but I don't think there is any such thing. I've seen thousands of miles of pole lines that have the power on the lowest crossarm, field side, and communication and signal circuits mixed up indiscriminately. Depends on the railroad, the date the line was built, the route the line follows, and God knows what else.
S. Hadid
bush9245 wrote: Tom, Seems really strange to me that they would string power and phone lines on the same poles. However, there are enough people say they did it so who am I to doubt? It is a commercial thing that I wonder about. The power company owns the power lines and the phone company the phone lines. Who owns the poles? Or do they share the cost of poles? And then there is the safety and public liability issue. Power lines are sort of nasty. Phone lines are pretty innocuous by comparison. Seems to be a fertile field for litigation if something goes wrong with a joint facility. However, there are plenty say that the various lines were carried on the same poles, so they must have got over those concerns.
Tom,
Seems really strange to me that they would string power and phone lines on the same poles. However, there are enough people say they did it so who am I to doubt?
It is a commercial thing that I wonder about. The power company owns the power lines and the phone company the phone lines. Who owns the poles? Or do they share the cost of poles?
And then there is the safety and public liability issue. Power lines are sort of nasty. Phone lines are pretty innocuous by comparison. Seems to be a fertile field for litigation if something goes wrong with a joint facility.
However, there are plenty say that the various lines were carried on the same poles, so they must have got over those concerns.
Railroad pole lines are owned by the railroad, not the power company or Bellco. They sometimes carried leased lines such as Western Union, but the power, communications, and signal circuits were all railroad, with rare exception. Electrified railroads are a special case. They often later sold or leased their separate high-voltage power lines to power companies, which either sat on an easement on railroad property or the right-of-way was sold to the power company (the latter usually after the railroad was abandoned).
Poles along the right of way usually carried railroad specific only items, power to signals. communictions plus some had Western Union connections, It seemed every station had a telegraph office.It was not uncommon to see six or even eight cross arms on poles back then. A four track mainline would have at least six, a sinngle track branch, up to three.
Street poles carried municipal electric, telegraph and phone lines.Many photos from that era show three or four cross arms on street poles as well.
This is a general estimate, that should give you some ideas for your own placement.
Thanks for that Mikado thread. I learnt a lot from that one. However, now that we know they might have been pulling 70 to 80 cars I don't want to see any little short 30 or 40 car trains on your layout behind a mike.
You might have already looked at this previous thread. http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/41123/ShowPost.aspx
I found that old one when I was looking for a newer one. Had some photos of roads with power lines one side and phone lines the other. Here it is, and you started it!! Guess you know all about that one, sorry. http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/926706/ShowPost.aspx
And then it is perhaps only along railroads that you want. Not roads and highways. Sorry for wasting the bandwidth again.
tstage wrote:Were telephone poles (that ran beside the mainlines during the steam age) strictly used for telephone transmission only, or were they also used for other things, as well?
tstage wrote:Did telephone poles ever carry electrical lines? Or, because of the transformer, were electrical lines designated strictly to utilily poles?
tstage wrote:If separate, how were electrical poles run in conjunction with telephone poles. Different sides of the street? Were they also run along the main line somehow?
tstage wrote:Are there any good pictures of telephone/utility poles during the 30s/40's to glean some good prototypical modeling information from?