Never-before modeled railroad scenes

[FJ and G]

OK, maybe some of these have been modeled but here's what I'd like to see (and may attempt to do someday)

1. A full-sized copper or other open-pit ore mine with dozens of concentric circles and little mining trains and steam shovels

2. Main-island of Hawaii sugar cane operation with volcanoes, snow-capped peak, and high surf in the background/foreground

3. I would say the Key West Extension, except that I actually saw a layout of that featured in a MR magazine--how cool!

4. Panama Canal donkey engines pulling ships and using real water and operating locks/gates--would be nearly impossible to do! BTW, these engines pulled more tonnage per their size than any other RR engines in the world. Nearby the canal you could also model the standard railway, which, BTW, was the first transcontinental RR in the Western Hemisphere.

5. Constructions railroads (narrow gauge) that were temporarily laid (and some still exist) in tunnel construction, dam construction, and a host of other huge-scale projects

6. Mining railways. I visited the Lackawana Coal mine 3 weeks ago and rode down into the mine in a pretty cool mine car with 20 percent grades. Last year I rode another Pennsylvania mine car and outside there was a steam loco that burned anthracite coal.

[FJ and G]

Oh, a couple more.

7. El railways of NY with steam powered 0-4-4

8. The railways that went to Nome Alaska and also the one at Copper Creek, Cordova area (?) along the coast (both abandoned around 1940s)

[jrbarney]

Fonda Johnson,
Add the railroad in Puerto Rico (the territory, not in New Mexico). Started in the 1890s, it ultimately had at least 150 miles of track, nearly encircled the island and had at least one tunnel. If I'm correct, the railroad was demolished in 1953 at the start of "Operation Bootstrap." Believe it or not, they are now proselytizing a commuter railroad in San Juan because the Interstate (Interterritory ?) highway can't handle all the traffic. Don't know if there has ever been a popular book about this "fallen flag," just notes in various island histories.
Bob

[Anonymous]

I'm thinking about having a go at building a section of the New York High Line - this was a freight elevated line that ran through buildings, had a twin-track main line with heavy freight trains rumbling up and down. Look at www.oldnyc.com for more prototype info. I'm planning a representation rather than an exact model of a certain section, and I plan to use one of the Walthers "American Hardware Supply" warehouse kits as the basis. The only problem I have is how to link this to my existing layout - I've seen photos of the incline on the real thing, but I would need masses of room to build this (which I don't have). So I suspect my model will have to be a diorama - though if I plan it carefully I may be able to fit some switches and a couple of spur tracks, just enough to allow me to operate a small switcher and a couple of freight cars. So it will be an operating diorama.

[FJ and G]

jrbarney,

That's a shame there's no more RR in PR. Didn't know that. Okinawa, Bermuda, and many other islands also lost their railways and now would like to have them back.

Brit,

I grew up in the Bronx (late 50s 60s) and I remember a lot of carfloat operations. In addition to the high line here's another gem. You could model one of the short railway terminals that only existed on pierside and did not connect anywhere else except by carfloat. Think of the opportunity to model an entire railroad, without any selective compression!

Also in an Alaskan port town on the lower island chain had a short railway (not the WP&Y, but a different port).

All,

In Chicago right now, they are building several hundred miles of sewage tunnels and have narrow gauge railroads going thru for tunnel boring machine. Work won't finish until 2010. Tallk about weird railways!!!

[FJ and G]

jrbarney,

I was just web surfing and look what I discovered. A hidden railway in Puerto Rico!

http://www.fta.dot.gov/research/equip/civil/tundes/tundes.htm

[dknelson]

Perhaps somewhere someone has modeled the midwestern 3 foot gauge lines, such as the PRR's in Ohio, the Milwaukee Road's in Iowa, or the C&NW's in Wisconsin but I have never seen any in a magazine that I can recall, nor any accurate equipment (Bachmann offers some of its On30 trains in Pennsy paint, it is true).
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

How about the war-time railways that were temporarily laid to move goods around the front in Europe. I believe there were version in both WW's.

Andrew

[Anonymous]

Just a question about the open pit mine idea. Could this be put on an HO layout but modelled with a N scale train to look more in the distance and actually be able to do a decent grade and train length in a small space?

This might be a beginner question.

[FJ and G]

dknelson,

Very good point! With so many Pennsy fans out there, I'm surprised no one has done this. I guess there's more fixation on the GG-1 (NY-Harrisburg-DC) and Horseshoe Curve.

Did you know there were many standard-gauge logging roads throughout the non-mountainous eastern United States and they didn't all use Shays, Climaxes, and Heislers. These would be pretty cool to model. I can think of several in Arkansas.

Andrew,

Indeed correct. Railways served the front in both wars. However, during WWI, there were thousands of miles of light railway hastily constructed for transport of troops and supplies and the front was much less fluid and conducive to railways than WWII.

In the Pacific, there were even railways on some of the little islands. Some were sugar cane but some were specifically built for military purposes--mostly Japanese but some American. For example, one was built by the US on Guadalcanal because trucks were getting bogged down in mud.

Fastrakr,

That is a marvelous idea. The open pit could also serve as an inside-out helix.

[Anonymous]

How about the Chicago underground? There was an article in Trains a while back. A video has also been made. Model it unflooded, of course.

[coalminer3]

NYC highline would be interesting, especially if you are a structure modeler. New Yorker magazine not too long ago had a pictorial about it. There are also severeal NY-related websites which feature photo tours of the line.

Speaking of mining operations, I remember being underground at a zinc mine which had a narrow gauge railroad inside the mine (Plymouth locomotive, IIRC). Interesting stuff as they brought loads in above a chute, the cars were emptied from the bottom automatically, and the ore went by gravity to a belt line that carried it out of the mine to the mill.

I have another one for you. A long time ago I saw a picture of part of what later became the Southern Ry. (in Tennessee) under construction. They had a rail-mounted steam shovel that looked like something out of Star Wars - now there's a project.

How about when South Station was being constructed in Boston. They had an onsite railroad. Since much of the project was below water level, the contractors had to install cofferdams, etc. to facilitiate their work. They also had divers who wore the old style suits and helmets (think 20 Thousand Leagues Under the Sea). There's another idea...

Re construction lines, X2200 (Issue 114, I think) had an excellent article on the Oro Dam railroad. Some of the locomotives used on this project came east to Louisville and Nashville RR.

Hope this helps

work safe

[FJ and G]

coalminer3

Excellent points. The Wilson Dam here in N. Va. used railways right on the dam. Many others too.

Speaking of Boston, the Big Dig had to go under a large railway network. They used for the first time in a large project in N. Am. a technique called "tunnel jacking." The ground below the tracks was actually frozen (frozen brine was piped in) to stabilize it because the cut was so shallow. A major construction scene like that would be an incredible thing to model (my magazine just published an article on it--The Military Engineer)

[leighant]

I'm sure this is not never, maybe not even "rare", but a scene that is surely undermodeled is a length of railroad - running straight through a more or less flat countryside with a road running alongside, a ditch, power and/or telephone lines. Fence line between the railroad and the countryside. A plain Jane scene that you see over and over. At least one train length of this plain ordinary scenery.

This is one of the things I want to put in a layout, but it is in the 2nd or 3rd rank down of scenes to include. The town and station scene, the industry, the river and bridge scene, the railroad yard, the end curve so I can get the train around somewhere-- these usually take priority when I draw up a plan and the train-length of plain ordinary running scene gets left out.

Some more moderately-plain scenes I would like to see modeled more often:
A line running more or less straight and close to level while the scenery undulates up and down a little, with the track sometimes in a shallow cut (not a tunnel!), sometimes on a low fill with a culvert for drainage.
A very low trestle-- less than a scale 6 feet tall.
On a forest-theme layout, a train-length scene of track just running through the woods without a campground scene, river crossing, lumbering scene, just woods.

[ironhorseman]

I've always wanted to model a scale replica of a major grain elevator, like the ones in Hutchinson or Wichita. I know that may not sound exciting or exotic, but man that thing would be big, even by HO standards.

[coalminer3]

FJ&G

A friend was involved with the tunnel jacking and ground freezing project. Fascinating stuff. IIRC, in addition to the cut being shallow the ground was basically "liquid." The shoring I mentioned when South Station was constructed was used to keep the Ft. Point channel whwre it was supposed to be and also to make sure water did not come up from underneath. There was a lot of wrapping and tar used used in the project - high tech stuff for the day. Well deciding to model something like the Big Dig project would certainly make Plastruct happy (LOL)

I got another idea - tunnels into Penn Station - different kind of construction work, but every bit as challeneging as some of the ones we have been discussing.

Also, how about the Hoosac Tunnel, or some of the tunnel boring machinery used on other projects - talk about stuff from Star Wars!

work safe

[IRONROOSTER]

I remember reading somewhere about the Russians laying track on the ice one winter (might have been a WWII time period).
Enjoy
Paul

[Allen Jenkins]

I was amused that someone mentionede the Oro Dam project. A mention of the narrow guage ops. caused me to hesitate, out of respect, but the standard guage G.E. U25C locomotives that the ole' L&N obtained kinda did have an obscure past. Dave Muller of Southern Scale Models painted them once, not one to duplicate numbers you know. One item I wish more modelers would have the guts to do is super-elevate at least some of the mainline curves! Even just a few scale inches. I've raised the outside rail on 18" r. curve as much as the height of the inside rail, code100. Tastefully done easements used between radius to the tangent, mainline, not every curve, and following NMRA specs of correctly weighted cars, once you've tried, you won't want to "hang around" flat track. Properly tuned cars, king pin adjustment, correct coupler height, plenty of graphite on metal to metal contact, and guaged wheelsets, will prevent stringlining of cars. That happens on the prototype roads anyway. So enjoy the adventure, explore never before modeled events in life, just like Chris Columbus! Enjoy Your Hobby! Allen'03

[Anonymous]

The WW2 narrow-gauge military line idea has been done - look in the November 2003 issue of "Continental Modeller" - someone built a model of a German narrow-gauge line supposedly situated somewhere on the Normandy coast in 1944 - it even uses a ready-assembled 1/72 scale Radio Control Tiger tank as part of the scenery - neat idea!

The Imperial War Museum at Duxford in the UK has a small collection of WW1 narrow-gauge stock - I remember a small steamer and a little armoured internal combustion loco when I visited a couple of years ago, sadly I don't think they run either of these, but they did have some narrow-gauge track leading out of the exhibition hall, through a door and off into the distance.

[FJ and G]

Brit,

I am just getting started on a book about light railways in France during WWI. Just last night I was dreaming about also modeling a railway of that era in HO or N scale. The narrow-gauge railways were operated by allies as well as by several railway battalions of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

I have magazines in my office dealing with the subject, dated to back then. If anyone is interested, you could visit my digs at Society of American Military Engineers in old town Alexandria VA.

I just started the research and collection of materials, btw. Unfortunately, I don't think there are many people around to interview.

[Anonymous]

Hmm,

At the Baltimore Society of Model Engineers there was built a tunnel viewable through plexiglass in which a station was built. I was young then and cannot remember what it was exactly I would imagine it to still be there.

Regarding the Chicago Storm Drain project, that has been ongoing since 1970, I watched on the History Channel and they did use conveyer belts to carry the dig out and above ground. I believe it was about 2 miles long from the borer.

There is no reason why anyone cannot model some form of underground. I believe in Baltimore there is a Tunnel (which had a bad fire last couple of years) that carried trains in and out of the city. Theoratically one can have a tunnel next to a built up area and just run trains to and from staging there. The visitor will always be curious to find out where the tunnel begins and ends.

As a side note, we have "cities" that are completely underground in the USA. You would drive a tractor trailer with cargo completly underground and deliver it below the surface of the earth. For me it was alien to see limestone, granite etc all around instead of usualy above ground view. I believe there were rail cars there as well. Some of these places support the Nation in time of war and also provides good logistics in time of peace with out the expense and visibilty of buildings, real estate etc.

Good Luck

Lee

[joseph2]

I read somewhere when railroads like the GN and NP were being constructed they would make a temporary bridge by putting long railroad ties on frozen rivers.

[DSchmitt]

There is a British company that sells an extensive line of British (Some American propotype) WWI military narrow gauge, Trhe company has a web page.

Charls S. Small's book "Rails to Doomsday" published in 1980 is about the US Army railroads on Corregidor and Manila Bay.

The one on Carabao Island is a nice little switchback from a wharf to materials storage bins and two concrete mixing plants used to build gun emplacements.
The island doesent appear to be much wider than the track at one point along the line,

[Anonymous]

Heres one that I think hasn't been modeled yet. The Peru' Rail in South America running from Cusco to Machu Picchu. I made a visit there last summer and took that scenic rail ride to Machu Picchu. The 3 feet gauge with early diesel, steam engines, and Europe Passenger cars. It is about 58 mile route, between these locations. The interesting part of the rail line that it winds around in the Andies Mountains crosses small rivers, goes throw short tunnels, and it switch back 3 times to gain elevation on side of the mountain so it can snake through the higher peaks. On route to Cusco, then travelles in a high plain surrounded by peaks. Cusco is located in a valley in circled by the Andies then the rail line desends into Cusco which it switch back about 5 times to head throw town to the depot.
William

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by masonjar

How about the war-time railways that were temporarily laid to move goods around the front in Europe. I believe there were version in both WW's.

Andrew

Now that would be cool!!!

[Anonymous]

I saw a recent archeology-type TV programme about a "dig" on a WW1 battlefield. Amongst badges, rifles, ammo, etc they found a section of narrow gauge track showing the damage caused by a direct hit from an artillery shell. I suspect there are still many sections of track strewn through north-east France - farmers in that area are still finding unexploded shells while ploughing fields - there are organised roadside collection points where farmers can leave shells etc that they find to be removed and safely disposed of. I was over there on a school trip a few years ago and remember being told "don't touch anything - it might explode"!

[coalminer3]

Amen. IIRC, some of the unexploded ordnance still contains poison gas.

Not too long ago one of the locals here found an unexploded Civil War shell in her garden. She had enough sense to call the police who in turn contacted state police bomb disposal group who took care of it. Something like that will put a crimp in the rest of your day for sure.

work safe

[eastcoast]

I am sure if you look hard enough and the fact that you brought them up, someone has modelled these areas or attempted to. It all comes down to how much space you have and how much effort you want to put into it . Anything is possible with all the new things out on the market and a little imagination.
[:)]
Hey, I want to try to model the Bombardier Plant in Plattsburgh, New York.
Anybody know anything about this area? I am understanding that they keep
pretty tight wraps on that . But it would be cool to see it.

[Anonymous]

Actually, someone DID model the Copper River Northwestern Railway (CRNW - Can't Run & Never Will). It looks VERY cool. There is a great website at http://members.tripod.com/~Blackburn49/ . The model is actually of the Kennecott Mine. The CRNW ran 196 miles from Cordova to the Kennecott Mine from 1911-1938.

Track plan can be seen at http://blackburn49.tripod.com/track_plan.htm

[ShaunCN]

I would like to see somebody model a dead line were damaged or retired locos are stored and waiting to be srapped I have ried this before but need mor info and pics about this.
ShaunCN