Hiawatha Pacific

[Anonymous]

I'm looking for prototype information on the hooded/streamlined Pacifics that the Milwaukee road operated westward out of the St. Paul depot when My dad was a teenager. My longterm goal is to scratch build one in Z scale.

[jimrice4449]

The St Paul location presents a problem! The Milw had 2 classes of Pacific that got the streamlined shrouding patterned after that used on the F-7 Hudsons. There were 2 F-1 class engines that were converted from F-5s. They had 75" drivers (I think) and were used on the Manila-Sioux City connection for the Midwest Hiawatha. There were also two F-2 Pacifics that had been converted from F-3s with 80" drivers. They were used on the Chippewa Hiawatha between Milwaukee, Green Bay and Ontonagon. The problem is that neither service went to St Paul. Could you be thinking of the six F-7 Hudsons that were regulars at St. Paul?

[Anonymous]

My Dad's memory is that the F2 was used breifly out of St. Paul until the Hudsons were delivered. Then the F2 Pacifics were switched to the Chippewa. It's the F2 that I want to model, and the Chippewa tender. If I can get that done then I'll go for the Super Dome & the Skytop beavertail.

John L. Battey

[jimrice4449]

OK, the Pacifics were streamlined after the Hudson were delivered (the strreamliming was patterned after the Hudsons) however, prior (and susequent) to the delivery of the streamlined Hudsons the Milw had 4 streamlined Atlantics that were regulars in St Paul. Unfortunately, they weren't used on the Chippewa but were regulars on the Chicago-Madison trains and other second tier service.

[wjstix]

Well it's certainly possible that the Milwaukee used pacifics temporarily on the Hiawatha, but unfortunately I don't recall ever reading anything about it, or seeing any pics of it?? If it's correct that the pacifics were streamlines after the hudsons were, I wonder if the unstreamlined pacifics maybe filled in for a while on the Hi?? I assume the 4-6-4's replaced the 4-4-2's because the atlantics were having trouble with the longer trains in service by the late thirties, maybe the 4-6-2's filled in until the hudsons were ready.

[CMSTPP]

The locomotives may be quite hard to make.

But here are a couple of pictures of the 4-4-2 hiawatha steam locomotive.


if you look, the passenger cars were the exact same hight as the steam locos tender.


Here is the locomotive up close.

James

[jimrice4449]

Actually the F-3 pacifics were assigned to the Chippewa before they were streamlined.
They got a grey, orange and maroon paint job and special "Chippewa " lettering. There wasn't a transition period between the Atlantics and F-7 Hudsons. The 1935 Hiawatha train set was 9 cars and 2 more Atlantics were added to the 2 original ones at that time. When the 1938 train sets were delivered the F-7s were too. The Atlantics were still used on the Afternoon and Morning Hiawathas after 1938 on occasions when the trains didn't run more than 9 or 10 cars.

[wjstix]

Say James, any idea of the location of the B&W 4-4-2 pic?? (It's obviously along the Mississippi, just wondering where.) Thanks.[:)]

[jimrice4449]

That certainly looks like some body of water to the right rear of the train and the lighting would be consistant w/ the w/b Hi in late afternoon but I think (stand by for corrections from locals) there were bluffs along the Miss. west shore in Minn and the RR ran between them and the river

[wjstix]

I was wondering if the site the pic came from had the location on it, because it looks to me like it might be not too far from my new home in Cottage Grove MN. The Milwaukee mainline came out of downtown St.Paul on the east bank of the Mississippi, and ran along it for several miles until crossing over to the west bank at Hastings MN. (I got to ride the same line in the Empire Builder a couple years back.) Cottage Grove is about half way between St. Paul and Hastings. As you say, with the sun's low angle, could the morning Hi a few miles outside of St.Paul.