Need Help with Diesel and Steam Loco Dates & Era

[Anonymous]

Forum update test.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Jetrock

Yep, that's what it looks like, 44 tonner.

Are you saying that the RRs went from "logs only- to lumber" OR "logs and lumber"?
About when did this happen? (circa?).

[Jetrock]

It definitely sounds like a GE 44 tonner...here's a pic of mine:

if it looks like that, you've got a 44 tonner. As JDLX mentioned, they were used on many short lines including logging railroads--I know the Arcata & Mad River used some to replace their aging steam locomotives.

One thing about logging railroads, especially later ones, is the actual role of the railroad. Early logging lines were intended to actually run into the woods to logging sites, and carry back rough logs--this was much faster than ox teams, and could be used in more places than floating logs down a nearby river (the huge redwoods and sequoias were way too big to float down the mountain creeks where they grow!) This need for lightweight, mobile engines meant that logging railroads tended to be narrow gauge or use the lightest, highest-traction engines available.

In the mid-20th Century, locomotives were getting bigger and heavier, and other equipment like tractors and specialty logging vehicles were better able to amble into the woods up dirt roads than locomotives--plus you didn't need to lay rails for them. So the logging railroad of that era wasn't still carrying logs directly from logging sites, but WAS carrying lumber from mill-site to interchange. Railroads like this were more like "common carrier" short lines (the A&MR mentioned above was one) and less like the purpose-built logging-in-the-woods railroads. Thus they are more flexible--you have more options than just moving log cars!

[Anonymous]

To egmurphy:

Thank you very much for the list of diesels. That is exactly what I was looking for.


To Jeff:

Great information on logging lines. Thanks a million.

[JDLX]

John-

The Bachmann model you mention is a General Electric 44-ton switcher. GE built many of them between 1940 and 1956. The 44-tonners were popular with many railroads because they did not require a fireman- many work rules and/or union agreements of the 1940's required a fireman on any locomotive weighing more than 45 tons, and the 44 ton came up just shy of that mark. The 44-tonners were especially popular with shortlines, and several in the California foothills used the little locomotives (Camino, Placerville & Lake Tahoe and Amador Central just to name two).

About timelines. If you are serious about modeling a logging railroad, then the early 1960's are about as modern as you can expect to get. There were a number of logging railroads that did survive into the 1960's, including two in the Sierras. The West Side Lumber Company lasted until October 1960, and it was three foot gauge and steam powered until the end. The nearby Pickering Lumber Company dieselized with a quartet of new EMD SW900 diesels, which they used until scrapping their railroad in 1966. Pickering had a couple of Shays on hand until the very end, and there was some talk of making a tourist railroad out of part of their line. Some groups actually got an excursion or two organized before the idea fell apart and the last of the rails came up. There is an excellent website out there with many photos of the Pickering located at:

http://home.att.net/~rail-logger/pickering.html

By my count only a handfull of logging railroads lasted into the 1970's. Coos Bay Lumber Company finally closed their logging railroad that ran north to Coos Bay, OR, in 1971 or 1972 (I've got the exact date here somewhere...). The Oregon & Northwestern railroad continued to haul logs for Edward Hines Wester Pine Company, its corporate parent, until 1977. The Weyerhaeuser Woods railroad and the Oregon, California & Eastern continued to haul logs down into Klamath Falls, OR until 1990. Weyerhaeuser kept a small fleet of GE 70-ton switchers busy hauling lumber down into Springfield, OR until 1987. Up in Washington Simpson Timber ran a true logging railroad until 2000 or 2001. They still haul logs but have lost that true logging railroad aspect. Farther north Rayonier used three Baldwin S-12s on one division of their operation until 1973 and five Baldwin AS-616's on another division until 1983 or so. Weyerhaeuser had another extensive logging railroad system out of Longview, WA that hauled logs until Mt. St. Helens obliterated much of the railroad and the timberlands it depended on in 1980. Up on Vancouver Island Canadian Forest Products continues to haul logs with a quartet of EMD SW-1200's to this day as the last surviving logging railroad anywhere on the North American continent. All of these logging railroads shared two things in common...mainly that there was enough logging going on in one place for an extended enough period of time to warrant continued operation of the railroad and that trucks brought logs down from the harvest sites to truck to railcar reloads. By the late 1950's the practice of building spurs out to each harvest site died. There are those who say that no true logging railroads existed after the end of spur line logging, but in my view the trains still moved logs and had a lumber company name spelled out on the side of the locomotives...

EMD built the SW-7 from around 1940 until 1950. There are still many out earning a living today.

If you can live without a logging railroad that extends your date range forward quite a few years. Many lumber companies that had sawmills located off the main lines owned common carrier shortlines that connected the sawmill with the major railroads, and in many cases the shortline lasted many more years than the private logging railroads. The Camino, Placerville & Lake Tahoe ran from a large mill at Camino, CA, down to a connection with the end of a Southern Pacific branchline in Placerville, CA. That railroad used a variety of geared steam locomotives on both the CP< and the private logging railroad, which belonged to the Michigan-California Lumber Company. Mich-Cal closed the logging railroad but kept some of the Shays, which saw use on a short-lived tourist railroad that used part of the old grade out of Camino. The CP< dieselized with a GE 44-ton switcher.

I have rambled on long enough and am starting to go in circles. I will close by referring you to a couple websites, in case you haven't already found them.

John Barnhill runs a fabulous website that covers almost all railroads that ever operated in the part of the country that you are interested in. You can find plenty of inspiration here:

http://ncespee.railfan.net/Foothill/frmain.html

Information on many other shortlines and loggers around California in addition to the Sierra region.

I run two websites that may be of some interest to you. The first is about the McCloud River Lumber Company/McCloud River Railroad/McCloud Railway Company.

http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails

I run another website about the railroads of Oregon's high desert region. Several of the pages- Union Railroad of Oregon, Condon Kinzua & Southern, Big Creek & Telocaset, Oregon & Northwestern, Oregon California & Eastern, and some others cover timber oriented shortlines of various sizes.

http://www.trainweb.org/highdesertrails

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV

[egmurphy]

QUOTE: John: I am looking for a list of some sort, that shows the dates of useage for Steam and Diesel Locos, anywhere from the 1950s to the 1980s.

Here's a chronological list of the production dates for all diesel locomotives up through the 80's. that will at least help you establi***hat the diesels you have were produced before the period of your layout.
http://www.urbaneagle.com/data/RRdieselchrono.html

Regards

Ed

[markpierce]

Most common diesels on logging lines were EMD SWs and Baldwin Ss. By the time more modern diesels were available, the logging lines were GONE. Suggest you look up the rosters of McCloud River, Pickering Lumber, and California Western, etc. I'm sure you can find a website for these and similar railroads that give loco rosters.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Everyone for the answers so far. Now I'm on the "right track" at least,
(pun definitely intended).

This pike I'm building, is a mythical line, based somewhat on the reality of a logging-sawmill RR up in the Sierras of Central California which interfaces with a major RR at a junction. It has a tourist and recreational aspect, in addition to a functioning log-saw operation, as was true of some RRs in that area, according to the research I've done.
I'm trying to "force" the date of this RR, to be as current as possible, which according to "masonjar" and "dehusman" seems to be maybe the early 60's,
which you say was the end of rail based logging operations.
If I could push it up into the 70's that would be nice, but I don't want to bend
reality too much.

(To dehusman)
I picked up a couple diesel switchers on sale at my local train shop.
One is a Bachman Spectrum, with the cab located in the center of the loco.
I don't know what this unit is, because it was a display unit, I bought off the shelf with no box or papers. It is 3/4 the size of the other switcher I bought,
which is an Athearn SW/7. I'm planning on getting a Shay steam loco also.

(To tstage)
Both of these switchers are 4 axle.

[tstage]

For what it's worth. As far as diesels are concerned, I'd look for something in the 4-axle range that could handle the tight curves.

Tom

[Anonymous]

While the "homegrown" stuff for these kinds of operations is true... I would say that the vast majority of rail-based logging and mining was gone by the effective end of the steam era (ca. 1960). That's not to say that there weren't diesels before, or steamers after, but just a general guideline.

What is the proposed date and location of your line?

Andrew

[dehusman]

i know this won't be much help, but just about any diesel built since about 1940 could be on a "mountain logging and sawmill" layout. Most likely would be any 4 axle diesel. Least likely would be any carbody unit (F, E, FA, PA, DL109, C-liner).

Logging operations tended to have real oddball power later than main line or even shortline operations. Some kept steam or geared steamers well in the 60's. they have minority builder diesels (Alco, Baldwin) and non-standard diesels like switchers with dynamic brakes and unusual headlight arrangements. That doesn't count the truy bizarre home grown stuff. From that standpoint a list of what class 1 railroads did won't help you much and since your time span encompasses diesels from the first roadswitchers all the way up to SD60's and C44-9's a timeline won't eliminate many units.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

Greetings Everyone

I'm building a Mountain Logging and Sawmill layout and I need some Era and Date info.

I am looking for a list of some sort, that shows the dates of useage for Steam
and Diesel Locos, anywhere from the 1950s to the 1980s.

Does anyone know of a list of this type that shows in chronological order,
the years these various locos were used?
I'm talking about books, videos or the Web.

Thanks in Advance
John