F unit question

[jecorbett]

In my years in the hobby I have heard about F3s and F7s but what about 1,2,4,5 and 6. Were there any such locos built and if not what is the significance of the numbers and why were the other numbers not used.

I wonder about such things like this and whether they went through A thru G before they came up with Preparation H. How would you have liked being that product tester?

[joseph2]

I believe the Erie had some F5's.yes I feel sorry for the product testers.

[dehusman]

Some early model F3's were called "F2"s but it wasn't an official designation. The number is just a model number and has little or no significance on an EMD unit.

Dave H.

[SSW9389]

No Cigar here, the EMD F2 was produced from 7/46 to 11/46. There were officially 74 F2As and 30 F2Bs. Source The Second Diesel Spotter's Guide by Jerry Pinkepank.

The non-model that Dave was thinking about is the F5. The last part of F3 production from 8/48 to 2/49 were built with D27 traction motors, the same as on the F7. Late F3s were and are sometimes called F5s. [8D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

Some early model F3's were called "F2"s but it wasn't an official designation. The number is just a model number and has little or no significance on an EMD unit.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

I think CNW had rebuilt some old CGW and maybe even their own F3's into F5's. Also, didn't someone rebuild an F-unit into a "F-10"? BTW, don't foreget about the F9.

Hope this helps[:)]

[Anonymous]

There were also FTs - the first built. Most FTs were delivered as semi-permanently coupled A/B pairs. As I understand it the F2 was effectively an FT carbody with upgraded internals though I could be wrong - they look fairly similar. One book I've found handy is "F Units: The diesels that did it" (Kalmbach) - it has neat line drawings of each type along with a good selection of photos of the locos in action (handy for detailing a loco). Hope this is of use!

[SSW9389]

The F2 used the new carbody intended for the F3. Railfans would call this the phase 1 carbody. Inside the F2 used the then new 16V-567B rated at 1350 horsepower, the same rating as the FT. For some reason EMD was unable to rate their generators at 1500 horsepower until later in 1946. [8D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

There were also FTs - the first built. Most FTs were delivered as semi-permanently coupled A/B pairs. As I understand it the F2 was effectively an FT carbody with upgraded internals though I could be wrong - they look fairly similar. One book I've found handy is "F Units: The diesels that did it" (Kalmbach) - it has neat line drawings of each type along with a good selection of photos of the locos in action (handy for detailing a loco). Hope this is of use!

[johncolley]

After some production of FT's with drawbars customers preferred couplers between units. So one of the "mid-model" changes was to extend the carbodies for the draft gear. This meant also adding hand rails and steps at the end that were also not part of the original design.

[Anonymous]

here's a link -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F-unit

[jimrice4449]

As I understand it the F-2 was intended for RRs that needed more than a FT AB could produce but felt that the ABBA was excessive, hence, you most frequently see the F-2 in combo w/ FT AB (RI< CB&Q< B&M for some)

[wjstix]

Jimrice is correct that many railroads did that - broke up FT A-B+B-A sets by adding an F2 to each A-B set - but I don't think that was the main reason for the F2. As SSW said there was some part or something needed for the new EMD 1500 HP diesel engine that EMD couldn't get right away (maybe due to production limitations from WW2?) and so they produced what essentially were 3-porthole F-3's but with only 1350 HP instead of 1500 HP. It only took a few months before the gizmo arrived the F-3's started, but railroads were so hungry for diesels that a fair number of F-2's were made.

[rrandb]

This may or may not applly but with there "E" units E-1 was a single unit, E-2 was a single unit and then many E-3's. Then an E-4 and a E-5 and then many E-6's. There are little or no rules just history. Where is the F4, F6 or the F8????? [?] [2c]

[SSW9389]

rrandb when you say E-1 was a single unit do you mean they were sold to only one railroad or what? There were 8 E1As and 3 E1Bs all sold to the Atchison Topeka and Santa Fe in 1937-1938. There were 2 E2As and 4 E2Bs sold to UP, C&NW and SP who used these E units on runs from Chicago to the west coast. What are you saying here[?]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

This may or may not applly but with there "E" units E-1 was a single unit, E-2 was a single unit and then many E-3's. Then an E-4 and a E-5 and then many E-6's. There are little or no rules just history. Where is the F4, F6 or the F8????? [?] [2c]

[rrandb]

What I meant was both the E-1 and the E-2 were single orders and these models were never repeated. They were made in such small #'s they could be considered demonstrators even though they did not go on tour. It was the E3's both A and B that was offered for sale as cataloged units. Since you have access to EMD trivia where did the E4 and E5 go??? [?]

[SSW9389]

There were two orders for E1As and two orders for E1Bs. Same spread for E2As and E2Bs. Making a total of eight orders for these units. All E4s went to Seaboard Air Line. All E5s went to Chicago Burlington & Qunicy or its subsidiary companies Colorado & Southern and Fort Worth and Denver. Diesel data from A J Kristopans.

[rrandb]

So where are the F4's, F6's and F8's??? [?]

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

So where are the F4's, F6's and F8's??? [?]

There are none.

[Anonymous]

I think some RRs may have used those designations for their own rebuilds of F units - I've heard of an F10 being produced in this way though it was not an official EMD designation - presumably it was a simple way for the RR to keep track of which units had what modifications.

[emdgp92]

Late F3s are sometimes called "F5s."

[rrandb]

"F5's were F3's that were built at the end of that model with the new F7 type traction moters installed. They were never refered to by EMD as anything other than F3.

[wjstix]

During construction, GM internally identified some F units made during the F3 to F7 model as an F5. They never used it externally with potential customers, in sales literature etc. Later some railfans and historians learned of this and began to refer to these engines as F5's even though the railroads that owned them called them F3's.

[rrandb]

All this time I thought they were referred to in GM/EMD company documents as F3A/F3B (phase III). Once the problems were solved with there new and improved alt/gen sets they became the F7A/F7B/FP7 series.. The question of marketing an F5 disapeared. ENJOY [%-)]

[WSOR 3801]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

So where are the F4's, F6's and F8's??? [?]

On the CMStP&P, F4s are 4-6-2s and F6s are 4-6-4s, in F6 and F6a versions. There is a full size photo of a F6 driver in the main entrance at Kalmbach.

[rrandb]

Thanks. We're still looking for those ellusive F8's. [bow]

[wjstix]

The video "FT 103: The Diesel That Revolutionized Railroading in America" from Mark I Video has a very good coverage of the entire GM diesel line, going back to promotional films for EMC and Winton from the 1930's and continuing into some 1980's engines.

The softcover book "General Motors F-units" The Locomotives that Revolutionized Railroading" by Daniel J. Mulhearn and John R. Taibi (Quadrant Press) covers the F units alone, with chapters on the FT, F2, F3, F7 and F9.

As was pointed out, the EA, E1 and E2 models were pretty much just 'one time - one railroad' productions (as was the TA for the Rock Island), it wasn't until the E3 that GM began making a truly 'off the shelf' standard passenger diesel.

Of course GM never used the term "phase", that was a term invented by railfans after the fact to describe changes within production models of various diesels. As far as GM was concerned, an F3 was an F3 whether it was built in 1946 or 1948, regardless how many differences there were (like three portholes or two, different vents, chicken wire or grilles, etc.).

[rrandb]

There is some speculation they (GM/EMC) only called it "F" at first and that the marketing dept hung that name on it for FreighT. The early documents are just "F" but it now known as FT forever more.