Horse cars

[Anonymous]

I was just reading the book on Seabiscuit the race horse and i would like to make a rail car that was used to transport race horses in the 30's and 40's doe's any one have any information or drawings on them thanks J Urich

[nedthomas]

The PRR horse cars were class B74. From the outside they looked like baggage cars except they had 3 doors per side and stalls inside. The PRR named all the cars-Atlantic City Raing Association, Dell Mar Turf Club, Metropolitan Jockey Club, etc. They were also Railway Express Agency cars. When hauling horses gave way to trucks most of the cars were rebuilt back to baggage cars. The PRR also had similar cars to haul stage scenery. These cars had large doors on one end to load and unload long items. Many Broadway shows opened "off Broadway" and these cars moved the show scenery from city to city.

[leighant]

Santa Fe had a number of HORSE EXPRESS cars. The full story is told in the book Head End Cars from the Santa Fe Rwy Historical and Modeling Society (1999)

ATSF #360-365 60' truss rod wood car, blt 1899-1901, out in 1937
scale elevation drawings Head End Cars (1999) p.116

ATSF #366-367 60' truss rod wood car w inconspicuous steel underframe
366 elevation & x-section Head End Cars(1999) p.119
366 photo interior w/o stall eqpt Head End Cars(1999) p.119
367 photo Head End Cars(1999) p.119

ATSF 2nd #366-370
rblt 1962-3 ATSF from 3000, 3030 series
prize model #366, Santa Fe Modeler, 2nd Quarter 1993 p.17
2nd #368 pix 1966 Head End Cars(1999) p.124
pix #369, ATSF Color Guide to Frt & Pass Eqpt p.19
2nd #370 pix 1967 shows all-door end Head End Cars(1999) p.124

ATSF #368-371 61' truss rod wood car, out 1930s
#368 elevation & cross section Head End Cars(1999) p.120

ATSF #372-381 70' wood body, steel fishbelly
1908 ACF; 70'length according to 1943 Pass Eqpt Reg.
pix 378,in 1911
"Santa Fe Paint & Lettering Guide p.18
scale drwg 372 Head End Cars(1999) p.121
photos 378.379 in 1961, steel plated Head End Cars(1999) p.121

ATSF #1980-1989
rblt 1951-3 ATSF from 3335,1222 series
75'length per 1957 Pass Eqpt Circular
elevation 1980, end door pix Head End Cars(1999) p.125
pix 1981 in 1966 Santa Fe Paint & Letter p.17
photo 1982 in 1962 Head End Cars(1999) p.125
photo 1983 in 1969 Head End Cars(1999) p.125
pix #1985, Santa Fe Diesels & Cars p.35
pix #1987,Warbonnet (publication of Santa Fe Rwy Hist & Mod Soc) 2Q97 p.23


ATSF #1990-1999 blt 1930 Pullman
79'2"length according to 1943 Pass Eqpt Reg.
pix,plans Santa Fe Modeler JulAug83 p.13
preserved at Orange Empire Rwy Museum, Perris, California
picture in Railway Oyssey p.20
mod pix & review Pecos River Brass HO Warbonnet 1Q02 p.36
pix #1989 (1985-1989) Head End Cars(1999 ed.) p.150
pix #1990 1963 w ends doors open & closed Head End Cars(1999) p.124
pix #1993 in 1963 Head End Cars(1999) p.123
elevation 1996 Head End Cars(1999) p.123
pix #1997,1999, ATSF Color Guide to Frt & Pass Eqpt p.20
pix 1997 in 1972, retired, shows end door.Head End Cars(1999) p.123
HO models: Coach Yard
according to chart (no pix) in Warbonnet 2Q 97 p.29
#1999 photo in 1973 Head End Cars(1999 ed.) p.154

Santa Fe horse cars not identified by car number:
end door baggage car kitbash Model Railroader Jan80 p.115
unknown car # in work service Work Eqpt.Cars p.136
spotting horse-express at Santa Anita to pick up racehorses for
shipment east Head End Cars(1999 ed.) p.158

Walthers made a Craftsman kit for this car some 30 years ago. You might be able to find pictures in an old Walthers catalog, or sketchy plans in Walthers Passenger Car Planbook

I think Santa Fe's horse express cars may have led to HO and N models of Santa Fe green stockcars. I can find no evidence of Santa Fe having green stockcars, but I think sometime back about 1950, some toy train manufacturer wanted to duplicate the success of Lionel's operating cattle car. But of course it had to be different, so they decided to make a tinplate toy train stock car for horses. I imagine that someone asked a railroad authority what color to make horse cars. The answer was green, referring to the dark coach green of the baggage-car-like horse express cars. But then the toymaker applied that color to what was basically a freight-type stockcar with little toy horses that went in and out of the car at the press of a button. But the green toy Santa Fe "stockcar" was copied in HO with a green ATSF stockcar, and later in N scale. Even Kadee (before the N scale line was split off as MicroTrains) had a green Santa Fe stockcar. Anyway, that is my theory.

[passengerfan]

Canadian Car and Foundry delivered six Horse Express cars to the Canadian Pacific Railway in January 1949. Not onlky did these cars transport race horses but had one time transported the Royal Canadian Mounted Police parade unit horses. The cars were numbered 4560 - 4565. Probably among the only streamlined cars of their type. Often seen in Kentucky transporting race horse back and forth to Canada. Later in the 1960's this trade was taken over by trucks.

[doctorwayne]

This is a photo of a model of a CNR express horse car that I built from a Rivarossi coach. It was copied from a picture in the book Canadian National Railway Passenger Equipment, by Gay Lepke. It's a fairly easy kitbash: cut the steps off the car and move the trucks closer to the car ends, then replace the sides with new ones built from Evergreen styrene passenger car siding. You can scratchbuild doors to suit your prototype and add other appropriate details. If you need a longer car, any suitable Rivarossi heavyweight car will do, except the observation, of course. I didn't replace the ends, as they appeared in the photo to be steel plated.

[
Your prototype may be a different road, but most of the cars looked similar to this.
Wayne

[Anonymous]

doctor wayne would you have any drawings of the way the car would be layed out on the inside?

[passengerfan]

Most horse cars had a pair of stalls on either side of the doors so a car like that pictured would be used to transport twelve horses maximum. The layout of the trucks used to transport horses today is very similar except the trucks being two feet naroower than the RR cars did not give the horses as much space. Also the trucks usually had a place for the handlers to ride along. On the RR cars the hanlers could be fond along with bails of hay and sacks of feed in the area betwen the doors. It was the job of the handlers to water and feed the horses in route and it is my understanding they usually strung a hammock across the cars to sleep on. The cars had water and it was also up to the handlers to keep the stalls clean in route as well. Having spent a summer in a loft above a stable one summer I can attest that the smell was not to sweet.

[jrbarney]

JJUrich,
If you're still looking for information, here's a link to a keyword search at the Index of Magazines:
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=S&sort=A&output=3&cmdtext=%22HORSECAR%22
You should be able to get a photocopy of any article cited that interests you from the NMRA's Kalmbach Memorial Library:
http://www.nmra.org/library/
Their rates are reasonable, even if you're not a member.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[cefinkjr]

JJUrich:

I'm sure I have exactly what you're looking for in my 1940 Car Builders Cyclopedia -- both photos (interior and exterior) and drawings. I was about to offer to share it with you but then noted the location in your profile. If that's current, I don't know how I can get the information to you. I don't have a bed scanner and, of course, I'm not willing to tear the pages out of my Car Builders Cyclopedia to scan them for you. Any ideas or specific questions I can answer?

Chuck

[dknelson]

There is a drawing and two good interior photos of the PRR Class B74B horse car in the book Pennsylvania Railroad Heavyweight Passenger Equipment Plan and Photo Book published in 1984 by NJ International. These cars had an unusual hinged end that could be completely opened and the roof line extended a bit beyond the ends
A somewhat crude equipment diagram is in the book Pennsylvania Railroad Railroad Passenger and Freight Car Diagrams by Robert J Wayner published by him in 1981. It mentions that the capacity was 24 horses.
Dave Nelson

[BRJN]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cefinkjr
I was about to offer to share it with you but then noted the location in your profile. If that's current, I don't know how I can get the information to you.

You may want to take the book to Instant Copy (or Kinkos or whoever in your vicinity) and ask them what can be done. Surely, tearing up the book is not the only possible answer!

[Anonymous]

Bethlehem Car Works' website indicates that they sell HO kits for PRR and NYC horse cars. Their ad in the Feb Railroad Model Craftsman features the NYC car.

[jrbarney]

JJUrich,
In addition to the information above, John H. White, Jr.'s excellent book, The American Railroad Freight Car, 1993, Johns Hopkins University Press, ISBN 0-8018-4404-5, has text describing horse cars on pages 265, 266, and 268, and on page 269 a drawing of an 1885 horse car and a photo of a 48' 1889 horse car. Perhaps too early for you, but possibly of use to someone interested in pre-1900 rolling stock.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543