Here's one for the hardcore NS fans.

[Morpar]

After looking at some recent photos of NS locos, plus live observations, I've finally noticed something. On the cab of almost every loco, right under the unit number, there is a group of letters. I have seen "SOU", "NS", "PRR", and I think I have even seen an "NYC". The link is to a former Conrail unit with "PRR" on it.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=124686
Am I right to presume these marks stand for various "fallen flags" that make up NS? And if so, why are they on the side of new, current locos, not ancient stuff headed for the scrap pile? Am I to take from this that somehow, underneath miles of red tape and legal crap, the Pennsy and the Central may actually still exist??? Is it possible (however unlikely) that they could even come back to life???? Please, someone let me know, as the more I have been thinking about this, the crazier it is making me!
Thanks

[Anonymous]

I don't have a concrete answer for you, but here is what I think. (Anyone please feel free to correct me). I think that the letters you are talking about somehow represent the road that the unit belonged to when it was brand new. Here is an example of what I mean - If you will notice, pretty much all of the units that were purchaced AFTER the railroad became "Norfolk Southern" ( the Dash 9s, and SD70s for example) have the "NS" letters on them. A lot of the older equipment may have "SOU" or "NW" on it because those units were actually purchaced by Southern, or Norfolk & Western long before there WAS a Norfolk Southern.

As you have stated, a lot of the equipment that came from Conrail, have markings like "PRR". You would think this would mean Pennsy, but even the SD80MACs have "PRR" on them, and they were NEVER owned by Pennsy. So, that is the only thing that I could think it could mean - A way of differentiateing units that were purchased by "Norfolk Southern" from those that weren't. Just my [2c].

P.S. I LOVE the Smokey and The Bandit reference in your sig. [8D]

[Anonymous]

Could it have to do with specific divisions of the new NS.BTW, Norfolk Southern has been around as long as the Southern and Norfolk and Western.

[Morpar]

The divisions idea makes a lot of sense. I remember back in the 80's when the merger took place, and I know it was before the SD60 and C40-9W were being built. I think that will rule out the idea of original owner, as I have seen SD70M units with "SOU" on the cab.

On the other hand, if any or all the "fallen flags" still somehow exist on paper, then maybe THEY are "buying" the units, then it would make sense. Planning ahead for a possible future split or ????

I dunno, but it does lead to some interesting ideas. Maybe a modern Pennsy paint scheme on a C40-9W, or maybe a NYC gray on an SD70. Hmmm........

[Mark300]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Morpar

After looking at some recent photos of NS locos, plus live observations, I've finally noticed something. On the cab of almost every loco, right under the unit number, there is a group of letters. I have seen "SOU", "NS", "PRR", and I think I have even seen an "NYC". The link is to a former Conrail unit with "PRR" on it.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=124686
Am I right to presume these marks stand for various "fallen flags" that make up NS? And if so, why are they on the side of new, current locos, not ancient stuff headed for the scrap pile? Am I to take from this that somehow, underneath miles of red tape and legal crap, the Pennsy and the Central may actually still exist??? Is it possible (however unlikely) that they could even come back to life???? Please, someone let me know, as the more I have been thinking about this, the crazier it is making me!
Thanks

Those marks represent (at least on the NS as well as CSXT) that particular equipment's 'pedigree' with respect to it's previous railroad/history and so forth. Such information is part of the railroad's specific system of 'branding' their stuff so that operators, mechanics and similar folks know what they are dealing with under all of that new 'paint-n-polish.'

When CSX & NS split up the Conrail system, many fine useable peices of equipment from Conrail's flock of fallen flags still existed and a realible easy to read method for tracking maintenance, rebuilds and upkeep is an enormous concern to railroads in terms of general reliablilty and quality of service.

As to your concerns about future reincarnations of the PRR, NYC, Reading and so forth......after 4, 7, 11 and 21 years, legal limitations do come into play making any sort of comeback completely impossible.

I mean no disrespect, but please, there are no conspiracy theories here!

What continues to haunt roads like the NS as well as UP, CXST and BNSF is the use and reuse of previous trademarks. We may very well see a program similar to UP's 'Legacy Locos' with repainting modern engines with schemes from their family of fallen flags. Over on one of the Western Maryland forums, folks are wish'n and hope'n for site of an SD45 with the Fireball or Speed letter designs so distinctive to that road. AND for that matter, they are continually updating their sitings of various old WM equipment that shows up on other roads in addition to CSXT.

Doing an NS verision of cateloging equipment is completely worth while and I bet an NS site already exists that can really give you the whole system. I'd start with one of the Yahoo groups.

What with GPS, bar-code monitoring, cellular technology and so forth, Visual conformity in a given railroad's 'Livery' is no longer necessary.....again check out UP's program & the latest issue of Trains Magazine. It may look like a Missouri Pacific or a Western Pacific loco, but the company knows to whom it really belongs.

So......you're very lucky to live in a time when our railroads CAN actually look like a Lionel Layout with all those different road names actually belonging to the same line!!! [8D]

Geat question.....& life is good!

Happy Railroading,


Mark

[coachayers]

Okay. here we go. A little history first. Old Southern Ry used to have the divisions noted under the unit number. CNOTP, AGS, etc EXCEPT for Southern itself. If it was blank, it was Southern. NS carried on that system with what they got from Conrail. The general split was Pennsy went to Norfolk Southern and NYC went to CSX. Hence, CSX got the 20th century water level route, NS got the Broadway limited and horseshoe curve. NS just stenciled "PRR" on what they got and CSX put "NYC" on their portion. When you see a Conrail NYC unit connected to a Conrail PRR unit, what you really have is a CSX/Norfolk Southern lashup!!! At least that is what they said in their annual report.

Bob

[Mark300]

QUOTE: Originally posted by coachayers

Okay. here we go. A little history first. Old Southern Ry used to have the divisions noted under the unit number. CNOTP, AGS, etc EXCEPT for Southern itself. If it was blank, it was Southern. NS carried on that system with what they got from Conrail. The general split was Pennsy went to Norfolk Southern and NYC went to CSX. Hence, CSX got the 20th century water level route, NS got the Broadway limited and horseshoe curve. NS just stenciled "PRR" on what they got and CSX put "NYC" on their portion. When you see a Conrail NYC unit connected to a Conrail PRR unit, what you really have is a CSX/Norfolk Southern lashup!!! At least that is what they said in their annual report.

Bob

Bob....Thanks for the part about the Old Southern Rwy portion of the original merger. That was indeed NS's original system.

I agree with your description of the Conrail splitup of the PRR & NYC sections to NS & CSXT, but things are more problematic with some of the other lines like the Reading, Lehigh Valley and Jersey Central. Some portions of their real esate did go to NS and othe parts went to CSXT. With equipment, it might be a different story as with Morpar's observations in his orignal post.

Plus with Run--thru's consisting of both NS & CSX engines (besides other roads), its a little amusing if not confusing.

Example....Last summer I saw an east bound freight (mostly reefers & double stacks) on an ex-Reading NS line along I-76 in Philly with a UP 'SDsomething' in the lead followed by a CSX loco followed by a still unpainted Conrail unit followed by an NS unit (I couldn't stop due to the jam it would have caused).

When you factor in Morpar's observations of how the cab units are being marked along with mixing and run-thrus - it does make for some exciting railfanning.

Happy Railroading.

Mark

[Anonymous]

NS, maybe doing what Guilford Rail Systems still does. On paper the Maine Central, the Boston and Maine and the Springfield Terminal still exist. It is the company policy to divide the locomotives between each railroad. Mostly this is done for finanincal reasons more then logistics. So technically my beloved Maine Central still exist, but the colors are grey instead of Harvest Orange.


Josh

[Anonymous]

After the NS/CSX buyout of Conrail, NS and CSX split everything down the middle including trackage and locomotives. The locomotives that CSX acquired had a NYC reporting mark.
NS had a PRR reporting mark. In some instances, the reporting marks identify which locomotives were purchased by which railroad, on the other hand the PRR marks you see are how to identify which locomotives were acquired from Conrail, purchased, or repainted by NS after the buyout of CR. For example, I saw an NS SD70M "Horsehead" engine the other day with PRR marks on it which means it was purchased after the buyout because CR never had any SD70M's. The marks on new engines a lot of times are not from previous owners, sometimes they are but in NS's case the PRR for instance is not a previous owner, think about it why would they put PRR on new SD70M's or Dash9-44CW's since obviously they did not belong to the Pennsylvania RR. They did it to show engines that were acquired or repainted after the CR buyout.

[Anonymous]

Question, could this have any thing to do with the appliances that a particular segment of the system might support, on board train signals or some such differences? Of course the NS could be planning a Jimmy Ling spin off of portions as stand alone companies and are simply planning ahead. Still doesn't explain the UP unit heading into Philly leading NS/Conrail units, unless the cab facilities were better maintained than the home roads'.
Will