Scratchbuilding Question

[wd45]

I'm going to try some scratchbuilding with styrene and am curious about ways to simulate rivets. I have been looking through my collection of MR & RMC magazines, but haven't really found any info on this.

Thanks for your help
Mike

[dehusman]

There is a tool called a "ponce wheel" which is a gear on a handle, you roll it along on thin styrene and the teeth make "rivets".

You can drill holes with the rivet spacing in a thin piece of metal and put that uner the piece of plastic with a light under it and then use a tool to push into the holes of the metal sheet.

If you have just a few rivets, you can shave the rivets off an old car shell and then glue individual rivets to the plastic.

You can use an X-Y table on a drill press and use the drill press (not turned on) to punch rivets in the styrene.

You can buy the riveter from Northwest Shortline.

Dave H.

[jrbarney]

Mike,
Another alternative is to buy your rivets from Tichy Train Group. Here's a link to one of the sizes they offer:
http://www.tichytraingroup.com/index.php?page=view_product.php&id=181
Please don't ask me to count them.[:)]
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[orsonroy]

Bob and Dave have hit on virtually all of the best ways to add rivets to scratchbuilding projects. In essence, you either emboss rivets onto a thin piece of plastic, or glue them onto a model. For individual or VERY small numbers of rivets, gluing them on is the way to go. For long rows of lots of rivets, embossing is better. Neither way is really "easy" though, and is the biggest problem with scratchbuilding (and which is why I don't scratchbuild all steel freight cars!)

Embossing means you have to use THIN (.005" or so) plastic, and you have to have some way to add the rivets evenly, consistently, and without punching through the plastic. Pounce wheels are the traditional way to do this, but realistically, they suck. The don't make round inpressions, so you end up with rectangular or oval rivets. It's also very hard to control how much pressure you put on the wheel, so the line of rivets won't be consistent. Finally, it's hard to keep the wheel on track for any length, meaning your "straight" rivet line will start to drift. Using some sort of swage press setup like NWSL's "Riveter" works MUCH better, but isn't cheap, and the process takes FOREVER, especially on large projects like tender or boxcar sides.

Gluing on individualy rivets can be more precise, and is usually the way resin freight car patternmakers make their masters, but the process takes even longer than embossing, and there's always the opportunity for you to mess up with the glue somewhere (LOTS of ways to screw up a rivet line!). The Tichy rivets, while a nice idea, aren't a viable option, because they end up with an unrealistic flat spot on one side. The best source for individual rivets is an old Athearn boxcar. Use an Exacto chisel blade to slice them off the body, and apply where needed.

[dehusman]

I forgot one other method that's pretty cool if you have several hundred to a thousand bucks to throw at it. You can modify a computer controlled mill with a power solenoid and rivet dies to make precision riveted pieces. Once you get all the hardware and software built, assembled and the programming worked out it will generate as complicated rivet work as you want effortlessly with high precision. YMMV

Dave H.

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

I forgot one other method that's pretty cool if you have several hundred to a thousand bucks to throw at it. You can modify a computer controlled mill with a power solenoid and rivet dies to make precision riveted pieces. Once you get all the hardware and software built, assembled and the programming worked out it will generate as complicated rivet work as you want effortlessly with high precision. YMMV

Dave H.

If you do all this work yourself, does it count as scratchbuilding?[:D][:D]

Enjoy
Paul

[dwRavenstar]

Rooster-

If you have the itch to do it anything that didn't come out of the box is scratch building. [:D]

Don't understand the particulars but I think any kit purchased at a flea market could be considered scratch as well.

Dave (dwRavenstar)

[West Coast S]

Visit a HS that deals in marine modeling , they have actual, usually brass rivets available in numerous sizes and lengths. Bear in mind, drilling and placing each rivet is a tedious process but well worth the effort. Draw a paper grid and temporaly attach to the car side, this will give you the proper spacing, panel to panel, top to bottom. I find it easier to insert the indvidule rivets into predrilled holes determined by the aforementioned guide by eye and a strong magnifyer lens with good lighting and a lot of patience. It also helps to maintain your sanity if you can do this with minimal distractions, say like at 3 AM!

[cefinkjr]

All of a sudden, I have this great desire to scratch build an all-welded car. [:p]

Chuck

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cefinkjr

All of a sudden, I have this great desire to scratch build an all-welded car. [:p]

Chuck

Yeah, or an all wood car that only requires a few NBW castings!

[jrbarney]

Just ran across a method that some airplane modelers use, drops of glue applied with a glue syringe:
http://www.starwoodmodels.com/products/ssm/rivetkit.php
In my view, not the most riveting experience I would want.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[mvlandsw]

QUOTE: Originally posted by West Coast S

Visit a HS that deals in marine modeling , they have actual, usually brass rivets available in numerous sizes and lengths. Bear in mind, drilling and placing each rivet is a tedious process but well worth the effort. Draw a paper grid and temporaly attach to the car side, this will give you the proper spacing, panel to panel, top to bottom. I find it easier to insert the indvidule rivets into predrilled holes determined by the aforementioned guide by eye and a strong magnifyer lens with good lighting and a lot of patience. It also helps to maintain your sanity if you can do this with minimal distractions, say like at 3 AM!

What size heads are available on these? Are they small enough for HO scale models?

[Medina1128]

If someone comes to look at your layout and starts counting rivets, post a series of signs (ala the Burma Shave ads) leading to the EXIT. It's your layout, and if you enjoy it, what else matters?

[mvlandsw]

The Athearn Santa Fe style caboose body has lots of rivits that are smaller than those on the boxcar body.

[jfrank138]

In the June 1968 issue of Model Railroader, Carl Traub described his homemade rivet tool. It was essentially an adjustable drop hammer with interchangeable male/female dies, and an adjustable table for holding/moving your workpiece. I made one from his article and have used it on countless projects over the decades. It works on brass, aluminum, styrene -- any thin malleable sheet -- and does a fantastic job, producing perfectly straight rows of absolutely uniform rivets. And it is quicker than other methods I have tried; it took me about an hour to put a trillion rivets on a scratchbuilt brass tender wrapper. Visitors can't believe I produced the rivets on my models, so I grab a piece of scrap sheet brass and demonstrate the riveter, producing a perfect rivet row in a few seconds. Can't recommend it highly enough!

[Anonymous]

The usual method over here in the uk is to cut small cubes of plastic strip, pick them up with a solvent laden brush and deposit in the desired poistion. The softening effect of the solvent will give a nicely rounded effect and you get a bit of time to adjust. If its wrong then slice it off and start again. you get some pretty good looking rivets this way

another option is to overlay thin brass sheet with the rivets pre embossed on a firm surface (MDF or a cutting mat)

All the best

kevin

[pcarrell]

Ahh, the lowly toothpick! A couple of these, some glue, and a ruler and pencil, and you can make millions of rivets in a few minutes out of a single tube of glue.

I find that the testors styrene glue made for model planes and cars works well.

So does a steady hand.

Try it on a piece of scrap until you get the hang of it. Consistancy is the name of the game.

And if you screw up, just wait a little bit for it to dry and sand or scrape it off and start over.

Best part, IT'S CHEAP!

Philip

[mrunyan]

Besides the glue drop method, I have also used a product by Gunze-Sanyo called Mr. Surfacer. A bit of this off the end of a pick dries as a roundhead rivet. Perhaps some old thick paint might work as well.

[norman peterson]

I don't know how to figure out the scale for ho scale how many inches to a foot and things like that

[AltonFan]

I remember reading an article where a guy took two sewing needles, and affixed them side-by-side to a wooden dowel, and used this to emboss rivets.

[Anonymous]

You might try looking at www.galtran.com in the "Scale Nuts and Bolts" page. There are small brass rivets available.

Bill Box

[davekelly]

Bill,

I checked out the galtran.com site. The scale nuts, bolts and rivits look intereesting as heck!! Gonna have to order some of these things and see how they work!