Super Chief

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to research the consist of the mid-1950s Super Chief prior to the combination with the El Capitan. I'm probably new enough at finding information that I'm looking in all the wrong places. I've tried the Sante Fe Railroad Historical Society and Modeling Society web site, but couldn't find anything there. I haven't been able to find what I want to know anywhere else, so I'm asking for help. I have the consist for 1937, but not the types and number (how many) of the engines and cars for the mid-1950s.

I recently found a Walthers model of the observation car for the mid-1950s, and the box shows two F-7A&B units (total of 4 F-7s), a Budd 73' baggage car, a Budd 63' RPO, a Budd "Pine" series 10-6 sleeper, a P-S Pleasure Dome, a P-S 36-seat Diner, a P-S 29-seat Dormitory-Lounge, a P-S 4-4-2 Sleeper, and a P-S "Vista" Series Observation-Lounge.

Does anyone know if that is the correct consist for that era? I would think there would be at least another sleeper or two, and possibly another diner, but I can't find that information. Was another F-7B added for the mountain areas? If engine(s) and/or cars were added or deleted enroute between Chicago to Los Angeles, where were the places this was done? I would think (trying to be logical?) extra cars might be added around major holidays such as Christmas.

Thanks for the help.

Pete

[jimrice4449]

I had the same question a while back and got the following from a helpful soul whose name I forget. From the engine (generally 4 or 5 of the newest psgr F-7s) baggage, RPO, 10-6, 10-6, 4-4-2,dome, diner, dorm/lounge, 4-4-2, 4-4-2, 10-6, observation. All are offered by Walthers although the last few times I tried to order my final 10-6 they were temporarilly out.
I don't know what the procedure was at Raton Pass, but at Cajon all westbound psgr trains changed engines at Barstow (the site of Santa Fe's main diesel shop) and then as an eastbound changed them again. Adjustments in power consists would be made then.
While car consists were subject to some flexibility premier trains' consists tended to be pretty stable. The Coast Daylight for example, in the early fifties, ran 20 cars (the maximum allowed for that train) every day. By the late sixries it was down to 4 cars with an occassional extra car for holiday week-ends.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Jim.

I thought most of the premier trains of that era ran about 8-12 passenger cars, an RPO, and at least one baggage car. The Walthers cars were issued in 2003 with the eight types of cars, but no information on how many sleepers were in the consist, and of which types (10-6, and 4-4-2). The engines were Athearn Genesis made for Walthers for the passenger cars, and come as a set of one F-7A and one F-7B, which would require 2 sets plus an extra A or B unit. Using an average of 2 people per compartment/section/bedroom/drawing room I calculate about 150 passengers in your consist. That sounds about right, but makes me wonder if they didn't have 2 diners for that many passengers (36 seat diners). I know the luxury trains weren't opposed to 3 sittings for meals, and often had passengers eat in their rooms, but that would still take at least 4 sittings per meal to feed that many people.

I also thought the train ran with 4 engines across the relatively flat portion of Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, and Illinois. I wasn't sure where the additional engine(s) were added and removed. They were most probably needed at Raton, through New Mexico, and at Cajon. That job had to drive someone nuts making sure the proper equipment was available at the correct place and time, and immaculate for use. I would think you could get away without cutting out an engine on the westbound, and starting the eastbound with a full compliment of engines, but the eastern portion of the route would tie up the 5th engine for an extra day in Chicago if left on--I don't think there was sufficient turnaround time to take an inbound engine and turn it to the outbound train.

I appreciate your help. Good luck.

Pete

[Anonymous]

Jimrice4449 has the correct consist, in the correct order, for the mid-'50's Super Chief. The Santa Fe was very helpful to future researchers by presenting detailed consist information in its public passenger timetables and its entries in the Official Guide of the Railways over the years. My January 1953 issue of the Guide confirms the consist listed above. One of the 10-6 sleepers ran Los Angeles-Kansas City only; the rest of the train ran Los Angeles-Chicago.

Note two items in reference to the consists and the Walthers train.

First, the 4-4-2 sleeper offered by Walthers is a pre-WWII car. These cars were bumped from the Super Chief by "Regal"-series 4-4-2 cars built by Pullman-Standard and ACF in 1948 and 1950.

Second, the "Vista"-series observation cars had their "boat tail" ends squared off in 1956.

[Anonymous]

I thought the "diner capacity" question was interesting, so I took a look at it.

With a consist of 3 10-6 sleepers, 3 4-4-2 sleepers and the observation (which had 4 drawing rooms and 1 bedroom), I calculate a maximum passenger capacity of 146 for the train, assuming 3 passengers per drawing room, 2 per bedroom or compartment and 1 per roomette.

Dining capacity on the train wasn't limited to the 36 seats in the dining car, however. The dome car, which was always coupled next to the diner, could accommodate as many as 13 for meals in its Turquoise Room. And, as you've already mentioned, passengers could take their meals in their sleeping car rooms.

Dividing the 146 passenger capacity by 49 available dining seats, we find 3 seatings would handle all the passengers potentially aboard.

[Anonymous]

Thanks to one and all for the helpful information. One of the more complete descriptions was the information on the “Railfan” web site:

http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=ATSF;action=display;num=1081891703

There were excellent comments on the Classic Trains Forums, the Model Railroad General Discussion Forum, and the Model Railroad Prototype Forum. I’m posting this to all three so that no one will miss the link above. I’ve also “distilled” the various posts in the Railfan Forum—there were some comments by others in the middle of Norm Anderson’s post, and he had to post the original message in several parts—so I’ve reduced it to his full story and his list of reference material. If anyone is interested, please send me an e-mail, and I will reply with the story as an attachment. It prints out to nine (9) pages.

I’ve chosen to concentrate on the consist used from 1951-1956. After 1956, the Super Chief and the El Capitan were combined, and some of the eastern cars were added. Here is basically the consist as Norm presented it:

“INTO THE '50s...


Just three years later (the 1948 equipment likely hadn't even been paid-off yet!) Santa Fe decided to again re-equip the Super Chief with brand-new equipment. The big news for this 1951 upgrade was the arrival of six "Turquoise Room/Pleasure Dome Lounge Cars" from Pullman-Standard. For nearly four years, these would be the only Domes into Los Angeles. Unlike most Domes before and since, which offered two-and-two seating in the upstairs Dome area, the Pleasure domes provided extra-wide, swiveling individual seats under glass. This Parlor-Car approach to Dome seating was unique to these six cars. Downstairs, the cars contained a main lounge area in the "long end", a serving bar in the "step-down" area underneath the Dome, and even boasted a private dining room (billed as "The Turquoise Room") which could be reserved in advance for private dinner parties of up to twelve guests. Pullman-Standard also provided seven companion Diners for this service. Over the next twenty years, right up to the advent of Amtrak in 1971, these Diners (Nos. 600 - 606) were paired with the Pleasure Domes, and were never, ever assigned to any other Santa Fe service. Operationally, the Pleasure Domes were run "long-end-forward", so that the Turquoise Room in the "short end" would be positioned right next to the Diner, which was operated "kitchen-forward".


"Typical" Super Chief Consist, 1951 - 1956

38L EMD F-7A Locomotive [Number Boards read "38"]
38A EMD F-7B Locomotive
38B EMD F-7B Locomotive
38C EMD F-7A Locomotive [Number Boards read "38C"]
3415 Baggage Car
83 Railway Post Office
1385 San Pascal Baggage/Barber Shop/Buffet Lounge Car
Palm Top Sleeping Car-- (10 Roomettes, 6 Double Bedrooms)
Pine Arroyo Sleeping Car-- (10 Roomettes, 6 Double bedrooms)
Regal Corps Sleeping Car-- (4 Compartments, 2 Drawing Rooms, 4 double Bedrooms)
502 Turquoise Room/Pleasure Dome Lounge Car
605 Fred Harvey Dining Car
1395 Dormitory/Club Lounge Car
Regal Hunt Sleeping Car-- (4 Compartments, 2 Drawing Rooms, 4 Double Bedrooms)
Regal Manor Sleeping Car-- (4 Compartments, 2 Drawing Rooms, 4 double Bedrooms)
Palm Lore Sleeping Car-- (10 Roomettes, 6 Double Bedrooms)
Vista Club Observation Lounge Car-- (4 Drawing Rooms, 1 Double Bedroom)

This would be the last major upgrade for the Super Chief, and likely represents the high-water-mark for this service. Indeed, the six Pleasure domes and seven companion Diners would be the last new equipment delivered to Santa Fe by Pullman-Standard, although ACF and Budd would continue to supply new cars into 1964.”

I realize this post is a little longer than I had planned, but I thought you might enjoy Norm’s commentary on that period as well as the consist. Again, thanks to all of you who were so helpful. I’m constantly amazed at the vast sources of information all of you possess. You remind me how much I have to learn.

Pete

[Anonymous]

These are from http://www.banksofthesusquehanna.com/MM37Super.html
You might get some info there

[Jetrock]

The three-seatings concept is consistent with what we tell people at the Railroad Museum when working in the old Super Chief "Cochiti."