I know how to tell the difference between the '38 TCL passenger cars and the '40 TCL passenger cars. What I was curious about is what changes were there to the '48 TCL cars?
Was it just another variant on the original paint scheme? Were they completely new cars? Were any of the older cars incorporated with the '48 TCL cars as is?
Thanks,
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Hello, Tom
I've also studied the equipment of the 'Centuries' and the rest of 'The Great steel Fleet' in the streamlined era. Fascinating stuff for any NYC fan or passenger train enthusiast in general.
The 1937 order placed with Pullman-Standard for equiping the 'new' Streamlined Century consisted of 62 cars.
The 1948 Century was completely re-equipped. The orders weren't only the Century but a good portion of the orders placed to Pullman Standard were for cars specifically designated for use on the Century. The War years were pretty tough on the 1938 cars and NYC among other roads were hoping to usher in a new generation of traveling public.
In all NYC ordered 239 cars from Budd and 354 cars from P-S along with 128 from AC&F. The Century was initially all Pullman-Standard cars. In 1957 the train was combined with the Commodore Vanderbilt and Budd equipment, including coaches, were intermingled with the consist. Generally the Century portion was to the rear.
There were some mechanical differences and interior accommodation changes incorporated in the '48 cars. The Century was an 'all-room' train since the beginning of the streamlined era but the '48 cars introduced more enclosed toilets (what Pullman called the 'annex') and slightly different interior decorating schemes including the 'Lookout Lounge' of the Creek-series observation cars.
Hopper 1938 Pullman Design by Edmund, on Flickr
After 1948 the majority of the '38 cars were relegated to 'lesser' trains and the specific cars assigned to the Century were primarily used as the second section to the Century or used to equip the Commodore Vanderbilt. Still, there was the occasional inclusion of some of the 1938 cars in the consists for the Century after 1948.
The 'simplified' 1948 scheme was itself modified over the years with elimination of the fine, black ¼" outlining of the stripes and lettering and as I recall the shades of gray varied a little going into the mid-1950s. The underframes were originally Gunmetal gray and this was changed to black around 1958.
Many modelers balked at the Walthers series of Century cars as being 'too dark' but in reality Walthers got it right. Most modelers were familiar with the later versions of the two-tone paint.
Keep in mind none of this happened overnight and there were periods of 'mixed' equipment as time wore on. I've seen photos of the Century with several mis-matched cars especially in the 1939-1940 transition.
Fortunately both the 1948, 5 bedroom-observation cars Sandy Creek and Hickory Creek have been preserved and are still in excellent condition.
creek interior crop by Edmund, on Flickr
12-6659 by George Hamlin, on Flickr
Century (2) by Edmund, on Flickr
The Budd observation car Wingate Brook was a stand-in for either of the Creek cars. My nephew is the proud owner of this car
The 20th Century Limited's Observation Car "Wingate Brook" by Marty Bernard, on Flickr
The four baggage/RPO cars, 5017-5020 built in May of 1938 for the Century did remain in service after the 1948 equipment upgrade and weren't disposed of until 1971 in Penn-Central ownership.
Regards, Ed
Thanks for the great info, Ed.
gmpullmanAfter 1948 the majority of the '38 cars were relegated to 'lesser' trains and the specific cars assigned to the Century were primarily used as the second section to the Century or used to equip the Commodore Vanderbilt. Still, there was the occasional inclusion of some of the 1938 cars in the consists for the Century after 1948.
Some slight clarification needed. Isn't what you are stating in the underscored text above the same thing as your 2nd sentence? Or, are you saying that occasionally the '38s might be "intermingled" with the '48 TCL cars - e.g. a '40s painted diner with a '48 diner - instead of being designated to the rear of the consist?
I do have a bit of a word jumble there
One thing to keep in mind is that the train did go through some 'adjustments' over the years meaning some changes to the consist along with subtle changes to the overall color scheme, both interior and exterior. Cars were refurbished and interior appointments 'updated' during mechanical rebuilds.
When both sets of equipment, 1938 and 1948 were new and still the 'talk' of the traveling public, every effort was made to keep the train intact as far as appearance and amenities. In the case of the 1938 equipment, the War years took its toll. The Island series observation cars were dropped, possibly some of the lounge cars, too. The War board had requirements for number of occupied seats per car and the extra handling of the observation cars (turning) were too much of a time constraint as well.
When the 1948 cars came along, again they were operated as much as possible to keep them together for appearance sake but this effort faded once the smell of the fresh paint wore off.
So the 1938 'Century' cars were used on other trains, primarily the Commodore Vanderbilt but could be found on several other trains as well.
In times of high traffic demand and, even though the post-war Century didn't run in multiple sections as often, there were still times when the '38 equipment was utilized to make up that second section and to provide as much of the Century 'class' that passengers were paying the $10 extra fare for.
Certain cars out of the groups were listed as 'approved' for Century service and the yard masters at Mott Haven and Chicago had lists of these cars to draw from. At one point toward the late '50s a small "Century" was applied in 2" lettering near the vestibule of these premiere cars.
Going back to the 1939-1940 shift to the 'simplified' paint scheme here's a good run-by showing cars of both styles carried on the train:
The video should start at the Breakneck Mountain scene.
In April of 1958 the Central decided to 'combine' the Commodore Vanderbilt with the Century. At first they made some attempts to play down the fact lest the Century patron think he was now riding a lesser train. I believe even the train numbers were kept separate. After October 1960 the charade was up and the Commodore Vanderbilt name and number was retired and it had to be admitted that the Century now carried coaches and economy Sleeper-Coaches. Oh, the indignity!
This photo at Englewood shows the makeup of the train at the time, the 1938 baggage/RPO at the head end, some Budd equipment, including a coach and SleeperCoaches plus the Budd diner lounge comprising the old Commodore section and the Pullman-Standard, smoothside Century cars, including a Creek observation car, toward the rear.
Century_Englewood_2 by Edmund, on Flickr
The 1938 cars were repainted in the '48 scheme rather quickly. I doubt any were left in the 'old' Dreyfus scheme after 1950. Here's a photo of the 1938 Bedloes Island in the post-war scheme:
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2006020312055517422.jpg
Generally it was the sleeping cars of the pre-war Century equipment that were pressed into service on the post-war Century. This is evident in some of the recorded consists showing some of the 10-5 Cascade cars or 4-4-2 Imperial cars and 13 bedroom County cars included in the train's makeup.
Here's an example of a 1938 Century observation car, Pelee Island, on the Commodore Vanderbilt in 1949 before being repainted, with a real mashup of equipment including the Santa Fe 4-4-2 Regal-series through sleeper just ahead.
Hope that helps, Ed
From what I've seen, NYC tried to keep the cars separated - i.e., only 20th Century cars on the Century, only stainless steel cars on the Empire State...but by about 1954 that ended, and you typically saw a mix of stainless and painted cars (and sometimes Pullman green heavyweights) together on the same train.