Can anyone tell me the purpose of the pipe my arrow is pointing to? This image (without the arrow) is clipped from a BLI ad for their PRR Q2; I have seen this pipe on every picture of a model or a prototype Q2, but on no other PRR or any other railroad's locomotive. It is aligned with the dry pipe to the right cylinder but is not seen on the left side of the locomotive.
I've asked everyone I know what this pipe is but nobody seems to know.
ChuckAllen, TX
We don't have permission to access your OneDrive. You have to follow the image-posting protocol for Forum postings: host it to a site that can provide a valid URL, then paste that URL or an appropriate link into your post.
Sight unseen I'd propose it's an exhaust-steam line to the feedwater heater.
I've got a low-angle shot of my Q2 on the turntable.
Q2_on_TT3 by Edmund, on Flickr
Does the pipe in question show up on my photo? Or here?
PRR_Q2-6187a by Edmund, on Flickr
This prototype photo of the 6187 at Crestline has a good, high resolution look at the right-side plumbing. Can you spot the pipe here and point it out?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwittyphotography/50200053552/in/album-72157711907036436/
Regards, Ed
Overmod
Did you try the link? I purposely generated it so that anyone with the link can view the picture but not edit it.
Yes, Ed, I can see the mystery pipe in all three photos, particularly if I zoom in on it. It's very clearly visible in the prototype photo where it appears to duck into the smoke box just above and forward of the builder's plate and come out again just above the walkway.
cefinkjrDid you try the link? I purposely generated it so that anyone with the link can view the picture but not edit it.
Chuck, I just tried the link again, and cannot see your photos. This is the message I get:
York1 John
cefinkjrIt's very clearly visible in the prototype photo where it appears to duck into the smoke box just above and forward of the builder's plate and come out again just above the walkway.
I'd have to verify my answer but I 'believe' that's the cold water feed from the centrifugal pump into the Worthington SA feed water heater. From there the water goes into the hot water pump then into the boiler on the fireman's side. On further examination it seems the pipe is too far to the rear of the heater to be the cold water inlet pipe.
I'll update if I find further information to back up my supposition.
If not cold water it 'might' be the steam exhaust from the air compressor or the Worthington hot water pump.
Unfortunate that my diagram, featuring the left side, doesn't seem to show the pipe.
Q2 Front End by Edmund, on Flickr
#36 in the diagram simply states 'Stack Extension'.
Good Luck, Ed
John
Very interesting. I am positive that you could follow that link successfully if I sent it to you in an email. I've done that sort of thing with other links hundreds of times. OneDrive obviously recognizes it as "one of theirs" and I can use the link so Kalmbach must be doing something to the link when you click on it in a forum post. That's not very friendly.
Check the Flickr links in Ed's post for views of the mystery pipe.
For those still following here is a cropped photo of Q2 6194 showing (arrow) the pipe in question:
Q2_PRR 6194-crop-arrow by Edmund, on Flickr
PRR Neg. E16291
Now that I see a slightly elevated view I see that the pipe turns toward the cab after exiting the lower portion of the smokebox lagging and jacket. That negates my thoughts of it being an exhaust for the right air pump. Now to figure out how far back it goes under the running board?
It seems kind of small (1½?) to be a booster exhaust pipe but, maybe...
Ed.
I believe that is the feed pipe for the steam generator. Fed from the control valve on the turret. The generator is behind the headlight under the shroud.
Pete.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I will give up and use Ed's photos.
Here is the link I copied and pasted into a new browser page, not using the forum site at all:
https://onedrive.live.com/cid=5E1772E7F0C9CA28&id=5E1772E7F0C9CA28%21489908&parId=5E1772E7F0C9CA28%21184&o=OneUp
That still will not allow me to see the photos. Not a big deal, and not worth spending any time on. It looks like Ed is on the right track.
York1Not to beat a dead horse, but I will give up and use Ed's photos.
I had to use Ed's photo also.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
York1 Here is the link I copied and pasted into a new browser page, not using the forum site at all: https://onedrive.live.com/cid=5E1772E7F0C9CA28&id=5E1772E7F0C9CA28%21489908&parId=5E1772E7F0C9CA28%21184&o=OneUp That still will not allow me to see the photos.
That still will not allow me to see the photos.
Forgive me for beating on that horse some more but here's the link, which works for me, copied and pasted from my initial post:
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=5E1772E7F0C9CA28&id=5E1772E7F0C9CA28%21489908&parId=5E1772E7F0C9CA28%21184&o=OneUp
I may have missed something but they sure look identical to me! And here's a link I just generated with "view but not edit" set:
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AijKyfDnchdenfM0N2KWhvzKhiXZXA?e=ad7PVY
VERY interesting; besides being much shorter, it's different from the very beginning! But, yes, it does work for me as the previous one does (a little faster, if anything). I know there have been some updates (i.e., fixes) applied to OneDrive in the last few days -- there was one this morning for OneDrive on Android devices -- but that's the only explanation I can think of.
As a retired SysProg and former IT x-spurt, this really bugs me. Please let me know if you can use this new link.
All that off-topic "stuff" being said, you're right to use Ed's photos; particularly the last one.
Back to the original question:
Ed
Thanks for that last picture; it really shows the mystery pipe. I had not seen on any model or prototype photo that the pipe continues on to the rear under the running board. Question on that: If you were the designer, would you not have put all of the pipe under the running board and not left the forward 2 or 3 feet exposed?
Pete
You may have something there. I see on the design drawing that Ed posted what might well be a generator. Pity we don't have a drawing like that of the right side. But again, I've got a question: Why route the pipe down from the turret, forward nearly the length of the engine and then up - through the lagging or the smokebox - to the generator. Wouldn't it have been much better to simply route the pipe from the turret along the top of the boiler (under the shroud) to the generator?
Chuck, success!
The second link works!
I tried the first one again and it still didn't work. Something Microsoft changed?
That pipe's not lagged, so it's unlikely it would be for water, steam, or air venting from an open FWH. It also, to me, looks too heavy for electrical conduit -- note the fairly heavy pipe elbow with union connection to the pipe in question. That would leave the likeliest contender as air.
The pipe is clearly not intended to be regularly removed and replaced, as the 'siamesing' into the jacket is very clean.
Looking at the detail picture of 6167, I see something coming out of the stack cladding that appears to go to the blocky device with semicircular top in approximately the place a class light would be, on a bracket. That is not on the elevation that Ed provided, although that does show some of the piping on the right side of the engine (as dotted lines).
The electric line to the front end is carried through the handrail on the Q2, and you can see the enlarged junction box near the front of the rail where the conduit emerges, then arches gracefully up to where the flexible lead to the generator, headlight, etc. attach. At no point does this indicate it is connected to the mystery pipe.
OvermodThe pipe is clearly not intended to be regularly removed and replaced, as the 'siamesing' into the jacket is very clean.
There is a removable escutcheon surrounding the pipe:
Q2 Jacket trim by Edmund, on Flickr
I see Pete made an inquiry at the PRR .io site. Maybe that has some results.
The turbo-generator is not at the front end as on other PRR locomotives. In the photos I've studied I can trace most of the pipe and I follow it ducking under the cab at the bottom of the boiler end sheet/backhead. There's also the cold water pump, a steam turbine located low, between the last driver and the first wheel of the trailing truck that would require an exhaust pipe.
OvermodI see something coming out of the stack cladding that appears to go to the blocky device with semicircular top in approximately the place a class light would be, on a bracket. That is not on the elevation that Ed provided, although that does show some of the piping on the right side of the engine (as dotted lines).
I see that pipe, too and it is coming out of the Worthington 'pre-heater' which had my first guess as a condensate return to the tender. You can get a glimpse of it here:
Does the pipe make a 90° bend downward just under the jacket?
Now I'm also thinking the exhaust for the stoker engine? Too small to be the booster exhaust, of course.
Chuck, the second link to One Drive works OK for me. The first link has me locked out even if I log in to One Drive.
Cheers, Ed
One person on the io site said it could be the feed water heater inlet. That would make sense. The feed water heater is just inside the front of the smoke box. A non lagged pipe that could easily be grabbed by an in attention worker.
What a pity we can't crawl around one sitting in Altoona or Lancaster. Nearly every photo of the Q2 is a blurry 3/4 shot, very few broadsides much less anything of use for the running gear Seems like the T1 and the S2 were stealing the limelight at the time, many more photos of them plus well documented in PRRT&HS Keystone magazines.
I believe the turbogenerator is on the left side, below the running board near the fourth driving axle.
I have some drawings of the Worthington SA feedwater heater. It could be the cold water delivery pipe but, I believe, this pipe was supposed to have as few bends in it as possible and what bends there are should be gradual. There is also a vent pipe that comes off the feedwater heater but I see no reason for this to be turned toward the cab as the elevated view of the right side shows.