Ed, that cinder pit is kind of what I had in mind but wasn't sure if that was prototypical or not. It seems that it was.
As for the coal conveyer, I've considered Dr. Wayne's solution. What I can't figure out is whether the hopper is dumping coal into a pit for the conveyer to be position into or if it's just dumping the coal between the rails. It seems to me if the coal were just being dumped between the rails, they couldn't dump the entire load at once. The photo looks like it's moving the coal to a truck as opposed to a tender.
Space is at a premium for this planned engine facility so I'm looking for something that is both prototypical and space saving. Even a small coaling tower will be hard to squeeze in and I'm not sure a shortline with just one steamer would even have a traditional coaling tower.
John-NYBWWhile on the subject, how would such a short line dispose of its cinders? I can't see it using something this elaborate.
There was a little discussion regarding dumping the ash pan on this thread:
https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/294746.aspx
131008_28_silverton by lmyers83, on Flickr
Cinders were a welcome commodity for short lines as they were put to use for ballast, fill, paving, platform surfaces roadways and any number of places where more expensive stone or gravel wouldn't be cost-effective.
I recently came across a photo of the type of conveyor Doctor Wayne mentioned above actually being maneuvered into place under this War emergency hopper, still with wood sheathing in 1950, at Washington D.C..
Eckington Team Track 1950 by Edmund, on Flickr
Tough to make out but I believe the hopper car is Reading.
Good Luck, Ed
I just posted this picture to the Show Me Something thread and it got me wondering if this cinder conveyor could be repurposed as a coal loader on a short line railroad with a single Ten Wheeler and if there is a prototype for something similar.
While on the subject, how would such a short line dispose of its cinders? I can't see it using something this elaborate.
ndbprreven major railroads had locations that were small facilities. the pennsylvania reading seashore lines had a loop at cold springs harbor at the end of the isand with wildwood New Jersey. k4s and e6s engines and entire trains would layover overnight for the morning runs. coal was added with a conveyer if needed and water was added with a hose. probably one guy working all night could handle the work.
At the end of the Ocean City line the Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines used special hopper cars with a false bottom over the pockets. Engines were spotted on the track next to the car and coal was hand shovelled across from the top of the car to the tender. There is a video of this operation on Youtube. I guess hostlers on the PRSL earned their pay.
even major railroads had locations that were small facilities. the pennsylvania reading seashore lines had a loop at cold springs harbor at the end of the isand with wildwood New Jersey. k4s and e6s engines and entire trains would layover overnight for the morning runs. coal was added with a conveyer if needed and water was added with a hose. probably one guy working all night could handle the work.
Hello All,
gmpullmanI've got a spot with a similar situation. I have a water tower but no facility for coal.
On the water side of the equation...
Water towers on short lines were often not necessary, while coal was vital.
Many short-line tenders had ways of loading water from local sources other than traditional water storage methods.
Often times the crew laying the track would create water collection ponds along the tracks.
Tenders were fitted with hoses and pumps to harvest water from these sources along the route.
If you are modeling in a limited space; water columns can replace the water tower and allow for the addition of a small coal mining operation.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
John-NYBWI asked this question a few years ago but I can't find the thread —
This?
https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/289151.aspx
I've got a spot with a similar situation. I have a water tower but no facility for coal.
For me, the plan is a jib crane, (Durango Press?) a small platform and a low-sided wood gondola on an adjacent track that would bring coal, mabe once or twice a month. The gon would be run down to the "junction" where it could be filled with coal dumped from the main-line tipple.
I've seen photos of a small "coaling dock" where bottom-dump, riveted cans — similar but smaller than what you might see at a construction site for hauling mixed concrete to upper floors — these cans would be loaded by hand and maybe a few ready to be hauled up to the top of the tender coal bunker with the jib crane and the bottom opened to dump the coal.
This one looks like it is made to dump when the latch is released:
Coal Bucket by Scottish Maritime Museum, on Flickr
The cans could be staged and refilled as time permitted. The jib crane has reach to swing over the track where the gondola is spotted.
Do a search for Durango Press crane and/or coal loader. D-P has some nice details that would add nicely to a small coaling yard.
Cheers, Ed
John-NYBW...there might just be a pile of coal rather than a coaling tower.
I doubt that but it has been said, "There is a prototype for every situation."
At The Cripple Creek & Victor Narrow Gauge Railroad (A 2-foot narrow gauge scenic railroad) that still burns coal, an elevated coal storage bunker is constructed of old railroad ties with a repurposed bulkhead from a tender.
It receives coal from a dump truck on one end of the elevated bunker.
The bottom of the tender bulkhead end is approximately 4-feet off the ground.
Wheelbarrows are loaded from this door and then manually pushed accros a wooden ramp to the waiting tender below. For smaller quantities, they use 5-gallon plastic buckets!
A portable conveyor might be employed, but machinery was expensive and required maintenance, while human power was readily available.
I have also seen photos of a coal gondola, on a parallel track, with workers using square transfer shovels to move coal to the tender.
Branchline coal dealers built elevated tracks to feed three-sided coal bunkers below.
The coal was then loaded by hand, conveyor, or a bucket loader, for delivery to customers or waiting tenders.
A well-timed delivery of coal- -via truck- -could be loaded into a tender with an elevated truck ramp.
I doubt there was a single solution to every tender loading situation.
Hopefully, my examples have inspired you to model a solution that is appropriate to your situation.
One of the best bargains out there is Fine Scale Miniature kit #180 "Sand House". This is actually four structures, including a bucket coaling station.
I got mine for only $60.00, which is not unusual for this kit.
The kit includes the typical FSM wooden construction, and over 100 detail parts, including some of the best coal buckets ever produced.
Even if you don't build the kit as designed, those detail castings for a coal bucket loader (and all the others) are worth the price.
If you need more detail, I can email you scans of the instructions.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
John-NYBW Either a portable conveyer or a bucket on a hoist could be used to load the tender. I'm trying to figure out just how that would be set up to unload the incoming coal.
One option might be these conveyors...
which, in real-life, are likely gasoline powered.
The one in the foreground could be positioned with the flat portion of the conveyor under a hopper car loaded with coal, and when the hopper door is opened, the conveyor would transport the coal to a pile near the tracks.When the hopper is emptied (or taken elsewhere for further unloading), the locomotive could show up needing the tender filled-up with coal...that's when the second conveyor (in the background near the truck) would come into play.All that's needed is to situate the bucket loader near the pile of coal, with the top of the elevator situated so that the coal would drop into the tender's coal bunker.Of course, somebody on the ground needs to shovel coal from the pile on the ground, and onto the conveyor belt.
As I recall, Walthers offers easy-to-build conveyors of both types, and while they're not operational, a properly stage scene might yield some nice photos.
(The conveyor in the foreground can be situated so that the shovel-jockey loads coal onto the flat conveyor, which can be situated so that it's loading the elevated conveyor.)
I knew if I hunted a bit, I'd find this combo of conveyors...
Wayne
For comparison, the Bellefonte Central (a sort of ultimate short line with a roster that never exceeded four locomotives at a time and 20 miles of track, operating two or three trains a day) had a full on concrete coal wharf.
http://jbritton.pennsyrr.com/index.php/post-pennsy/bellefonte-central-railroad/2-uncategorised/538-on-location-coleville-bcrr has some pictures of it.
I asked this question a few years ago but I can't find the thread so I'll start a new one. The motive power for my shortline is a Ten Wheeler and a doodlebug. The Ten Wheeler makes two trips a day up and down the line. I think someone said that on a lightly used line like that, there might just be a pile of coal rather than a coaling tower. Either a portable conveyer or a bucket on a hoist could be used to load the tender. I'm trying to figure out just how that would be set up to unload the incoming coal. Would there be a bunker under the tracks for the coal hopper to dump the coal into and then a conveyer would move it into a pile? Would manual labor be involved in unloading and piling up the coal? Would it be more typical for the coaling station to be at the terminus of the short line or at the interchange? I getting ready to build this facility and am considering all options.