dehusmanAh yes. How does the prototype do things but I don't want to do things prototypically questions always get confusing at some point.
I think your idea works, too.
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
crossthedogA more pertinent question might be why I would trouble your esteemed selves with questions about prototype if I'm just going to invoke Rule #1 anyway.
Ah yes. How does the prototype do things but I don't want to do things prototypically questions always get confusing at some point.
My suggestion is to put the coaling tower in a different place.
Put it next to the two black roofed boxcars at the bottom of the cut, between the main and the industry track and then the dump put goes under the industry track next to it.
No modifications to anyof the tracks, no additional switches, no encroaching on the "cliff" to the left.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Ed - ..."I wonder about the track on the lower level in your photo. You could concievably have the hoppers dumped there and coal hoisted to the top of the wharf..."
I think that lone hopper is parked at left because they couldn't use the material inside the tower at the time it was brought to the facility. Rather than tow it back, or onward, this empty/fills track allows the railway to simply wait until the contents can be intaken by the tower complex volume. Would this be so? And as the conveyor is clearly 'flying' from lower right up to the top of the hopper, there must be a dump track running to the right of the conveyor housing. We can't see it, but the obvious lengthy berm is there, about five/six feet higher than the mains.
dehusman Question: Why is there even a coaling tower there? There doesn't appear to be any other servicing facilites or a yard around the area.
Question: Why is there even a coaling tower there? There doesn't appear to be any other servicing facilites or a yard around the area.
The PRR had coaling facilities across the mainline to keep feeding the beasts. No servicing facilities around. Kittanning point comes to mind.
Pete.
...and anyway, there ARE services nearby -- engine house, turntable, water tower, sand facility, brakeman's lounge with ping pong table and free wifi -- you just can't see them because they're offstage. Somewhere. This is after all a terminal branch.
Ha, Dave! I believe I answered this question in my original post. The coaling tower is there because I like it, I want to use it, and this is about the only place I can put it. A more pertinent question might be why I would trouble your esteemed selves with questions about prototype if I'm just going to invoke Rule #1 anyway. But no one has asked that question.
I think the further away the coaling tower is from your depot is something to be considered. I don't think the passengers would appreciate the noise, coal dust, and general commotion so near the depot, especially when loading a tenderful of coal. Use the track on the backside of the tower for coal unloading/ and your other track for refueling. The unloading track can also hold extra loaded cars or empties, all the more reason for an extra bit of switching.
Mark B.
And it's not a bad idea, either. Pretty impressive mashup, Ed! I had thought the same thing about proximity of the tower to the station, and had considered trying to move it eastward (toward the camera) like you did, only it didn't allow for enough of a straight coming off the curved turnout the way I was thinking of it (I've learned the hard way that coupling on a curve doesn't work well). But the way you've done it, coming off the far end of the runaround, it might suit. It would be a pretty crowded set of turnouts right close to the edge there, but it might work. Thanks for the idea.
-Matt
crossthedogMusing out loud at this point. Feel free to interrupt my reverie.
Forgive my rudimentary Photoshop "skills".
Why does the coaling tower have to be so close to the depot? Dust, noise would be a disruption to the waiting passengers. Bring it closer to the curve and add a simple turnout to the runaround track where you could spot your hopper car of coal and even provide a place to tuck an off-duty switcher while the crew goes to beans.
uppertown-alt by Edmund, on Flickr
Then you don't have to mess around with another curved turnout.
Just an idea...
Good Luck, Ed
gmpullmanI wonder about the track on the lower level in your photo. You could concievably have the hoppers dumped there and coal hoisted to the top of the wharf.
dehusmanThe only other minor risks are having the chance for a hot cinder to fall out of the engine down into the coal pit and start a fire in the coal pit (worst outcome then to run the larry with the burning coal/cinders in it up into the top of the coaling tower and dump the burning coal/cinders into the top of the coal pile in the wooden coaling tower.) Other minor negative is having a grate on the ground where all the service guys will be walking around.
I have been annoyed by the squareness of the hill in the lower left corner, where the green structure is. That shape is a relic of my need to just get a town platform built, but I would prefer a curved plateau than such a sharp corner. I'm thinking of cutting that corner round. I'd lose an industry there (see the red scratched out tangent below), but I could curve that track around to the coal tower:...thereby gaining access to the other side of the tower for coal delivery, and in the process removing the obstruction to the spur track off the main down on the lower level, which needs to come around that hill but at present is blocked from doing so. That's yet more curved track, but I happen to have a lefty curved turnout that I found at a swap meet.I'm not certain. I didn't want to give up the industry on that corner, but as Douglas once pointed out, the track at that industry would anyway have to be empty most of the time in order for a locomotive to access the industry at the other end of that track (lower right in both pics).Musing out loud at this point. Feel free to interrupt my reverie.-Matt
The obvious impracticality has already been mentioned, having a hopper or hopper on the track prevents engines from being fueled.
In your picture the coaling tower should be able to be moved a lot closer to the loading track, the chute, when lowered should be almost centered over the loading track and the unloading track can be pretty close to the other side of the tower. I see the unloading track close to the edge as less of a compromise than having the loading and unloading on the same track.
The only other minor risks are having the chance for a hot cinder to fall out of the engine down into the coal pit and start a fire in the coal pit (worst outcome then to run the larry with the burning coal/cinders in it up into the top of the coaling tower and dump the burning coal/cinders into the top of the coal pile in the wooden coaling tower.) Other minor negative is having a grate on the ground where all the service guys will be walking around.
Sometimes the coal reciever can be a distance away and as Overmod points out, with the use of conveyors, augers or even clamshell buckets the main coal wharf can be filled as needed.
Norfolk & Western RR Coaling Tower Prichard W Va 28 Mar 1982 001 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr
I wonder about the track on the lower level in your photo. You could concievably have the hoppers dumped there and coal hoisted to the top of the wharf.
Wouldn't it be possible to trim that extra 3/8 or 1/2 inch off the front of the base and scoot the tower closer to your running tracks. Then you might be able to fit in a short siding off the tangent and tuck it in where you have the temporary track now without disturbing your existing turnouts?
NS - Macon, GA by d.w.davidson, on Flickr
Ed will have some interesting pictures of the skip arrangements used to lift coal to the top of these towers.
There is no "technical" reason you couldn't offload coal either on the 'coaling track' or one behind it, especially if the facility is small. The "main" part is the hopper that dispenses the coal into the tender, and this could be fed from skips or conveyors from multiple origins (if you had the money to build them)
The dump pit for coal would look very much like an on-line ashpit: a pair of concrete or steel beams supporting the rails, and a concrete- or stone-lined pit into which the coal would be dumped from one bay of a hopper at a time. The conveyor could lift it from there, or a larry car provided to roll it out from under the track to where it could be tipped or brought up to the top of the tower.
The alternative to this, with the advent of simple gasoline motors, was to have the coal pile on the ground, provide a motorized wheeled conveyor that dispenses directly into the tender, and arrange to get coal into the conveyor's feed hopper.
allegedlynerdy this coaling tower/storage facility that was on my prototype (as far as I can tell) did all unloading and loading from the covered area indicated in red
doctorwayneI'm sure that it could be done, but if a locomotive was busy spotting loaded hoppers to add coal to the coaling tower, it might be in the way of another locomotive in need of re-coaling.
gmpullmanTo give you a better perspective of what's inside:
To give you a better perspective of what's inside:
coal_wood by Edmund, on Flickr
crossthedog So my question is, would a coaling tower like this ever have received coal -- that is, could there have been a dump pit below the track -- on the same side as the delivery chute?
I'm sure that it could be done, but if a locomotive was busy spotting loaded hoppers to add coal to the coaling tower, it might be in the way of another locomotive in need of re-coaling.
I used this small coaling tower, from Walthers, due to the limited space in Lowbanks...
...but this larger one (a Tichy kit) allows servicing of three locomotives at a time, while another locomotive is busy spotting loaded hoppers to replenish the fuel supply...
Wayne
Most coaling towers were built for their environment as opposed to any standardized plan, so that'd fit.
For example, this coaling tower/storage facility that was on my prototype (as far as I can tell) did all unloading and loading from the covered area indicated in red
Happy New Year, all!This is a coaling tower I built when I was a teenager. It's seen better days, but it has outlived the cat that knocked it onto the floor by many decades.
I always knew such a tower was used to provide coal by gravity to locomotive tenders, but until very recently when I got into trains again, it had never occurred to me to wonder how the coal got up into the tower in the first place. I recently discovered (in another thread) that a hopper would dump coal between the rails on a track on the other side of the tower, and then the dumped coal was bucketed up from the pit to the top of the tower by conveyor, as in a grain elevator. I want to use this structure again but there's really only one spot on the new layout that will accommodate it, and that spot is shown in the photo. I temporarily placed a track on the far side for coal delivery to the tower (you can see the black hopper spotted there), but having a track so close to the edge of the upper level was not part of the original track plan. It would be better if I did not have to build that spur, and also it would save me having to undo some tricky track work I did already, including moving a Tortoise under the layout.So my question is, would a coaling tower like this ever have received coal -- that is, could there have been a dump pit below the track -- on the same side as the delivery chute? If not, why not?
For orientation, the leftmost track in the photo is the arrival track for short mixed local trains, and the one next to it, where locos would stop to fuel up, is the runaround or escape track. Thanks,-Matt