Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

How often do manual switches freeze shut

2557 views
14 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Maricopa, AZ
  • 269 posts
Posted by DanRaitz on Sunday, April 3, 2022 10:50 AM

When all else fails. Big Smile

If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy .... Red Green
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,900 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, April 2, 2022 4:58 PM

BigJim

Actually, you have much more problems with the lock freezing up!

 

The old Adlake locks had an easy fix, use a fusee.  The newer high security locks we have are a bit more tricky.  You can still use a fusee, but one needs to be careful doing that.  The guts of the lock are plastic.  Some have thawed them out too much, ruining the lock so that it won't open.  Or let the key be removed from the lock.

Jeff 

  • Member since
    April 2001
  • From: Roanoke, VA
  • 2,019 posts
Posted by BigJim on Saturday, April 2, 2022 3:07 PM

Actually, you have much more problems with the lock freezing up!

.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Indiana
  • 225 posts
Posted by mikeGTW on Saturday, March 26, 2022 10:44 PM

Jeff 

 

Totally agree yhose electric ones just didn't do the job  We used the ones that were like a home furnace blew hot air thru ductwork allways worked

 

And yes those circuit controllers we were supposed to check once a month If anything on the switch was a bit loose or anything problems  If I remember the gauge was only about 1/16" or so  

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,900 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, March 26, 2022 10:19 PM

A few years ago when they put in some new control points they tried electric element switch heaters.  They were supposed to warm up the rail and switch throw rods, etc.  They now have propane heaters.

They couldn't keep up with heavy snow fall.  It didn't help that the dispatchers didn't turn them on early enough, either.  It seems that they were always calling out signal maintainers to readjust the switches.

This last winter one bitterly cold night we were told to set out one of our trailing engines for another train to pick up later.  Before cutting away from the train, the conductor tried lining the split-rail derail.  It wouldn't line over properly.  I got down and tried to help him.  The point would line up tight with the rail, but the switch handle wouldn't go far enough to lock down in the slot on the stand.  The cold and affected the steel enough that it was out of adjustment.

We lined the derail back in the derailing position and reported the fact.  We were told to try the next setout location.  There we were able to get everything to line over and setout the engine.  Once back on the train, the conductor couldn't get the derail to line back in the derailing position.  We were about dead, reported the fact to both the dispatcher and relief crew.  They were to wait for MOW/signal to adjust the derail. 

I later worked with the relieving conductor.  He said that they waited for a few hours for someone to show up.  The sun had come up and he decided to use the restroom on the engine we had setout.  On the way back to the train, he decided to try the derail since the sun had then risen and been up for a good hour.  He was able to line the derail, the warmth of daylight affected the metal enough to get things to work.

You may have noted that I mentioned signal maintainers to adjust switches.  A coworker who used to work MOW said that in signalled territory, a signal maintainer needed to adjust main track switches.  The switches, including some derails, have a little box (called a circuit controller) that is operated in conjuction with the throw rod.  It ties in the switch position with the signal circuits.  A change in adjustment of a switch might hamper the circuit controller from working properly.

Jeff  

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Danbury Freight Yard
  • 459 posts
Posted by OldEngineman on Saturday, March 26, 2022 9:53 PM

RE Ed's pic of the propane switch heaters...

New Haven had these, too (until they reconfigured the entire plant about 20 years ago and put in electric heaters). One thing you don't get from Ed's pic -- when running, the propane heaters would emit an eerie, whistling whine. Amazing sounds along with the sights.

I often wondered just how hot the rail got from those things. Walking back to Motor Storage one night, I took a handful of snow and dropped it on the railhead. It instantly boiled away to steam. You wanted to keep a respectful distance from them!

  • Member since
    May 2020
  • 1,057 posts
Posted by wrench567 on Saturday, March 26, 2022 6:59 PM

   Mostly in the winter or when it's really cold and icy. Devil

  Sorry. Had to say it. I was stuck at a grade crossing waiting for the crew to finish smacking the switch rails with hammers and bars to get out of a siding onto the main.

    Pete.

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, March 26, 2022 3:38 PM

I used to live a few miles outside of Boston.  The answer to the question would be several times every winter, anytime there was a significant storm.  It wouldn't matter what kind of turnout it was, manual or powered.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    March 2013
  • 427 posts
Posted by Colorado Ray on Saturday, March 26, 2022 1:43 PM

Ed, that's an awesome photo!

 

Ray

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, March 26, 2022 12:10 AM

 C&NW - Lake Street by d.w.davidson, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Indiana
  • 225 posts
Posted by mikeGTW on Friday, March 25, 2022 9:37 PM

We used to install propane gas switch heaters 

 

Then some one got idea to put in an electric one in Valparaiso bad idea we were out there in Jan replacing it with gas one

 

The section guys used those smudge pots at times to keep switches thawed

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 2,505 posts
Posted by caldreamer on Friday, March 25, 2022 9:35 PM

Ed:

  Thanks for the information.  I will add that code to my program when I work on it tomorrow.

 

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Friday, March 25, 2022 7:47 PM

Automatic switches with switch heaters will sometimes freeze, too. I recall getting on the Capitol Limited in Cleveland one cold February morning. The train was already three hours late.

Cleveland is where the train begins to head south on the former PRR C&P branch toward Pittsburgh. The normally used switch that would have sent us onto the C&P was frozen so we had to back out of the station which is on the NYC main, about four miles to the nearest (working) crossover.

Switch heaters can fail or the ice can build up in a way that the heater won't thaw it. At remote locations the propane can run out.

I've been on trains where there were other delays due to frozen switches. Often times caused by freights adding to the congestion due to the back-up of traffic as a result of the out-of-service switch.

I've seen yard crews use a bucket of kerosene, rags and a fusee to thaw points in yards and industrial sidings. Anything to get the job done.

 CPRail in the storm Spaulding by Mark LLanuza, on Flickr

Good Luck, Ed

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • 1,002 posts
Posted by NP Eddie on Friday, March 25, 2022 6:02 PM

Short answer is "yes". The switch foreman will notify the section forces that XYZ company will need a switch, the sectionmen will come and cleanout the switch and move the points back in forth to insure the switch will work.

Ed Burns

Retired Clerk from Northtown. I was Roadmaster's Clerk for five years.

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 2,505 posts
How often do manual switches freeze shut
Posted by caldreamer on Friday, March 25, 2022 5:29 PM

How often do manual switches (industrial sidings, etc) freeze shut in cold weather?.  For example Joes Pickle factory ships once a week and the temperature has been below freezing and there is ice on the rails.  Would the switch to his siding freeze shut?

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!