An N scale Bachmann 44 ton locomotive will never be able to pull 6.64 ounces of train up that grade without stalling. The four 160 ton bottle cars plus two spacer cars would be too heavy. I have the actual pulling ability for all of my engines. It would take at least one SD40 type engine to get the train up the grade. If I use spacers between each of the bottle cars the train would require two SD40 type engines.
caldreamerThe four 160 ton bottle carss of raw steel would be brought out to the yard with a spacer car between the engine and the first hot metal car and after the last hot metal car where the big engines would haul it to the south works where the mills are located.
OK, so we're talking about an engine designed for heavy transfer service - dragging cuts of say 40-60 cars from one railroad's freight yard to another (like MN&S in the Twin Cities, or EJ&E in Chicagoland) - and then using two of these giants...to move six cars?
To my mind, something like GE 44- or 45-ton centercab switchers would make more sense?
Unfortunatly they do make any of those models in N scale. What about using an H24-66 to to haul the hot metal to the mills. I have two of the Atlas models. Would just need to repaint them into the appropriate railroad colors.
If you like Baldwins, they were renowned for their ability to haul drag freight as their Westinghouse traction motors were bigger than Alco's GE motors and EMD's and could absorb more heat. This meant they could pull harder longer (FM and Lima also used Westinghouse equipment). Sounds like just what you want. Here are the DRS-6-6-1500
drs-6-6-1500 - Bing images
and its successor, the AS-616
as-616 - Bing images
and, lucky you, Bowser makes models of the DRS-6-6-1500
HO Locos Bowser Exec Line--DRS-6-6-1500 (toytrainheaven.com)
and AS-616
New Baldwin Locomotives (bowser-trains.com)
And, what the hey, FM's H16-66
fm h16-66 - Bing images
Note that it came in the early Loewy styled hood and the later Train Master style - I think you will see that in the photos. CNW had 51, MILW 6 - all exiled to Minnesota iron ore service. But, unless it was made in brass, I'm not aware of any HO models.
IHB moved iron to a mill in Chicago from Inland steel in East Chicago Indiana. Power was usually SW1500s with a gondola between the engine and the first car full of molten iron and one between each iron car.for braking and weight separation on bridges. The first one also kept the heat away from the engine. I have seen autos have paint damage from the heat on steel slabs and iron in mills.
That is exactly what I would be doing. At the end of the upper yard is the lead to the steel mill. The four 160 ton bottle carss of raw steel would be brought out to the yard with a spacer car between the engine and the first hot metal car and after the last hot metal car where the big engines would haul it to the south works where the mills are located. It is a long run of over 200 feet uphill to where the mills are located. I could use older six axle locomotives, but I am still mulling the center cabs. The maximum speed for my hot metal trains will be 20 MPH.
OK, I think we agree that 3 axle trucks are a no-no in steel mills. But what I think the OP was describing was having blast furnaces at one location and doing a move over his main line to another location, where the hot metal cars are emptied and the raw steel is processed. What about that? It's a heavy, slow speed move where something like a DT-6-6-2000 or SD-38 would be perfect. The plant switchers would drop off and pickup the hot metal cars at interchange tracks and the line haul loco wouldn't enter the mill. That's the reason I suggested looking at what the EJ&E did
I have never seen a 3 axle trucked engine in the steel mills I have been in. That includes Japan, Canada, USA, Mexico, Germany and India. The one exception may be a Dutch switcher that was a diesel with six wheels connected by side rods but only one truck in essence.
With as low maintenance and as rough of track as there is in a steel mill, I would think that the last thing you would want in the mill itself is a 6 axle engine.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
caldreamerThere is an RT624 kit that is 3d printed available from Shapewsays. I comes with the shell, handrails, sideframes, sunvisors, and engineers. It also uses the Altals C628/30 drive
And here's more on that model
A Baldwin RT-624 In HO – Part 1 | James' Train Parts (jamestrainparts.com)
As I stated earlier, Shapeways also has
Baldwin DT6-6-2000 – HO | James' Train Parts (jamestrainparts.com)
I wonder if we can prevail on him to offer a Lima LT-2500
https://imgur.com/aOd3pfc
The steel plant where I worked used steam locos (before I started there), but in 1948 had a GE demonstrator testing on their property. In 1950, they bought two like this 80 tonner...
and later, starting in 1951, acquired a number of end-cab switchers. The first was a 1200HP SW9, followed by seven SW8s and 16 SW900s. By 1967 there were 29 diesels in yard service.
The plant also cut-up lots of old-time laker boats, and also a lot of steam locos, including many from the New York Central and the C&O.
Many of those steam locomotives had large tenders, and the company shops converted over 125 of them, with either Buckeye or Commonwealth 6 wheel trucks into cars for carrying hot slabs, 150 tons per car...
This is the mill where I worked...
There were, of course, lots of other cars, including torpedo cars for hot metal and slag pots, too. The plant also made their own gondolas for in-plant service
Most of the locomotives are gone now, either sold-off or transferred to subsidiaries elsewhere, replaced by large rubber-tired vehicles with enormous carrying capacities.
Wayne
Looks to me as though Bowser offers complete Commonwealth trucks (nominally for an AS-616) as their part #691-196. I also see reference to an all-wheel pickup kit (691-603) that they say is important if you run DCC, but I'm too dumb to recognize whether the 691-196 as sold includes these parts.
In my opinion you do NOT want these C Commonwealth trucks around typical steel mill trackage: they would be prone to derail and then be difficult to rerail...
Well, it's your layout and "there's a prototype for everything" but the fact that no steel mills bought any of these units tells us something. All the pictures and videos I've seen of hot metal trains operating over the road, show end cab switchers or conventional road switchers (SD38's preferably) in later years. Here's an example.
Hot metal train - Bing video
On the other hand, US Steel owned the EJ&E which owned over half the DT-6-6-2000 production - 25 units. Within the mills, end cab switchers of 1000-1200 hp were the prefered power, with lesser powered early box cabs and end cabs (like Alco High Hoods and EMD SC's and NW's) also populating the mills and their captive railroads (such as Philadelphia, Bethlehem and New England, Birminham Southern, Patapsco and Back Rivers, Steelton and High Spire and South Buffalo)
EMC Winton-engined switchers - Wikipedia
ALCO HH series - Wikipedia
So the question is, what did the J use its centercabs for? There doesn't seem to be a EJ&E Tech and Historical Society, but this site seems to be a treasure trove of information (you could pattern your model railroad on its equipment and operations)
EJ&E Archive (ejearchive.com)
and guess what, they have a discussion group where you could find out how the J used these beasts
"The EJ&E email list has over 800 members, including fans and ex employees alike. Join in the fun and sign-up to talk about our favorite railroad"
You're in luck as there is a kit for this model (we truly live in a Golden Age in terms of what is available!)
Happy Modeling!
The Baldwin model designation DT-6-6-2000 means it is Diesel Transfer-6 axle, 6 traction motored, 2000 HP unit. Basically, it is a pair of 1000 HP switchers sharing a common underframe, riding on six powered axles.
Most steel mill bottle car trains I've seen are hauled by regular end cab, 4 axle, switchers. These units are heavily modified with close clearance cabs, pilot end sheets cut off to near the bottom of the draft gear, and homemade heat shields. The pilot torch work was done because most steel mill units spend a lot of time on the ground due to the decrepit track that could be found at many mills.
The rationale for four axle switchers is mainly the length between truck centers, and the truck wheelbase itself coming in a close second. If this steel company is a very profitable operation and can afford the big beast, go for it! Baldwin built great steam locomotives, but tried using the same techniques on diesels, and their failure is widely documented in all of the repowerings of the late 1950s, early 1960s. The use of a pneumaticn throttle made most of their products early trade-in or, scrapping candidates. The only bright spot in the pneumatic throttle feature was it being notchless, which made switching a lot easier.
One drawback of all twin engine diesels is, if one engine craps out, the other one must accompany the lame one to the shop. There is more utility in having two four axles that can go any where in the mill, doing anything required. When it is time for the bottle run, simply MU a couple of them, cabs facing outward and go. Loaded bottle trains didn't didn't get much above 30 MPH, so a 1200 HP switcher had all the needed horsepower. To get that unusual steel mill beast, I would opt for a 1200 HP Lima-also a former steam builder's product, that didn't do as well as Baldwin.
hfor
There is an RT624 kit that is 3d printed available from Shapewsays. I comes with the shell, handrails, sideframes, sunvisors, and engineers. It also uses the Altals C628/30 drive. Thanks for the idea.
caldreamerThe Baldwin centercab kits are available and are 3D printed and use the Atlas C628/630 drive.
I was not around for the golden age of these centercabs -- something you might enjoy would be the Lima centercabs (using their improved 1000 to 1200hp engines and physical systems) that PRR used for a while.
Certainly DT&S, EJ&E, and I believe Trona got extended use out of their centercabs, although repower with appropriate EMD engines and main generators might be a wise thought...
I run everything from 1st generation locomotives to latest EMD's and GEVO's. I even have some U50b's and a Veranda Turbine that was converted to run on diesel. The Baldwin centercab kits are available and are 3D printed and use the Atlas C628/630 drive. I have always thought that these were uniquie locos.
caldreamerWould a pair of Baldwin DT-6-6-2000 center cab locomotives be appropriate to haul the steel in the hot metal cars from the BOF and EAF to the mills?
The real problem is visibility from the locomotive.
A single centercab of that size is like the opposite of two cabs-out 1000hp switchers, with restricted sightlines and visibility and, probably, the need for maintaining full dual controls in the cab. Switching and spotting might be a misery, and isolation from the heat is less than operating from a leading cab of the 'two switchers' configuration.
As with Peabody Coal, as the Baldwins come to be retired in some disgrace from first-line road service, you'd likely be able to pick up some excellent bargains on things like center-cabs; perhaps even RT-624s. And with a little attention to detail about their foibles (like leaking oil and water into channels in the underframe containing high-voltage traction current) you could likely get them to run as long as SMS has gotten their Baldwins to do...
My new railroad has a steel mill that has the hot side at one location and will have the mills furthur down the layout. Would a pair of Baldwin DT-6-6-2000 center cab locomotives be appropriate to haul the steel in the hot metal cars from the BOF and EAF to the mills?