Hello,
I am currently modeling th Unadilla Valley Railroad. This curent layout which is still in its infancy. But has proven to require a lot of research and modifications to the trains to make it match the prototype.
That being said, I am currently working on scratchbuilding my first locomotive U.V. Engine 1 Pendragon, a 4-4-0 American. I have been able to gather enough information to get plenty of details and well as the spacing for the wheel arrangements and size of the wheels.
However, I have been unable to get any sort of plans in regard to the overall dimensions of the locomotive as a whole which is stifling my progress.
Does anyone know where I can obtain these sort of plans or additional information on this type of locomotives measurements as a whole?
Do you know who the builder was? I would think a kitbash over a scratch would be closer to a final delivery.
Pete.
The Dilly Dally line has a historical society. There may be some info from them.
You probably need to decide the general era of 4-4-0 involved -- is this a 'new' engine of particular vintage, or an older design bought or kept over for current service?
The spacing between the driver axles is the room for the deep, narrow firebox. Eccentrics for the valve gear are on the forward driver axle, which is the main in most of these designs, and the rod angularity determines the main rod length up to the crosshead, which then dictates something about the stroke.
Most of the classic Americans were built with a patented construction which allowed the frame to be separated into two parts for maintenance: the rear half stayed with the boiler, the front half contained the rockers and levers for the link gear (which greatly simplified its maintenance and adjustment) -- note that the gear is usually inside, but has a bell-crank arrangement to bring the valve motion outside to spindles in line with the cylinders. These were often multiport or grid valves; in those days the idea was to have relatively small ports relatively close together and have short little valve travel -- so Trick porting (where you have multiple ports all machined to be timed the same for inlet and exhaust) becomes an interesting way to valve an appropriate amount of nonsuperheated steam and then exhaust its higher volume effectively with comparatively small motion. This gives you longer and wider valve boxes above the cylinders, and in fact this could approximate some of the Franklin System designs with comparatively large piping and structures above the cylinder passage/dead spaces at each end.
Boilers have that sharp taper to give more room above the crownsheet, but not use excessive metal at the front of the boiler. Note the position and height of the dome; it assists with handling priming or foaming due to bad water.
Feedwater pumps were rod-driven until after the 1851 invention of the injector (which was developed for dirigible balloons!)
Thank you for all your suggestions. Thanks to the UV historical society, I know the locomotive was a 50-ton standard American 4-4-0 with 62” driving wheels, builder’s plate was #3036, and was delivered in early February, 1895built by the Rhode Island Locomotive works to make it more specific. It was purchased new from what I have read and was kept in service for a few decades swapping its pilot and being repainted sometime in the mid 20s.
As long as I can get the firebox, cab and boiler measurements I’ll have enough information to draw up final plans and start working with brass to make the parts I can’t purchase.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
So this is a "late model" air brakes era 4-4-0 compared to the Civil War and 1870s models more commonly seen from Mantua, Bachmann, and AHM/Rivarossi, yet not as "modern" as, say, the C&IM or Ma & Pa 4-4-0s. The sand and steam domes for example are of a more modern smooth rounded profile, as is the headlight. The cab and tender look a little more old fashioned. The capped stack seems old fashioned but some railroads such as the T&P kept using capped stacks well into the 20th century. Is that a steam generator I see snuggled next to the front of the cab?
Although certain elements might not be spot on, the photo resembles the boiler/cab casting that Cary developed to fit over the Mantua General chassis and tender (tender drive). I have some recollection that the Cary prototype might have been a Milwaukee Road locomotive of 1890s vintage, so the end result would have a similar combinaton of factors and attributes that this photo shows. I also recall that the driver wheelbase length of The General did not really match the prototypes of the Cary boiler but it was the best available and most could live with the compromise.
Dave Nelson
Cary said it was based on a prototype built by Pittsburgh
https://imgur.com/J2KD4xM
https://imgur.com/EXsgxHo
Ebay could be your friend
Depending on what year the photo was taken. It appears there were a few upgrades done. Electric headlight is one with the steam generator. There is a lubricator line going to the top of the steam chest that looks like a later addition. Is that a bell mounted on the tender deck? The early type non lifting injector under the fireman's side looks as built, but there appears to be another on the other side because you can see the piping. The air pump is a very early Westinghouse. It matches the pictures in a 1895 locomotive builders encyclopedia along with the pressed steel air reservoir.
Another great source of information is the old locomotive encyclopedias. Google books has a few for download.
So I am working off of the measurements I know to make a rough first stage blueprint of the locomotive primarily off the 62 inch wheels.
However, I have also found a Ken Kidder 4-4-0 on eBay (I’ll post the link for at the bottom) which seems at least from the pictures to have the same exact boiler and some placement as my prototype. Of course it’s still possible I’m overlooking something in it.
I am wondering if with the plans I am already working on if it’s more efficient, cost effective or prototypical even to purchase this locomotive just for the boiler and perhaps the firebox and then completely overhaul everything else. Or if it's better to scratch build it with the rest of the locomotive, as was the original plan. The goal of this project is to have a locomotive as close to the prototype as I possibly can For an HO model.
Of course both will still require the same research and measurements off the available images to complete.
Here is the link;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ken-Kidder-3538-HO-Scale-Brass-NYC-HRR-4-4-0-Steam-Locomotive-Box-/334220482029?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
Here's some photos for you
First – Must be brand new, has no headlight, but with a backup light and plow pilot on the tender
https://imgur.com/5gwtdlM
Second – Deleted
Third – We now have an electric light
https://imgur.com/Hla8eKv
Four – And an air compressor
https://imgur.com/7mIWcFY
Five – If you look closely you can see the turbogenerator and its stack between the steam dome and the cab
https://imgur.com/YkwLG78
Six – on the high (?) iron
https://imgur.com/wervFiC
And a point about nomenclature - a "steam generator" is a small boiler on a diesel or electric locomotive to provide steam to heat passenger cars. The thingee providing the juice on a steamer is a "turbogenerator" or "dynamo". Steam came in and turned a turbine that turned a generator
Steam Turbine Powered Generator | This sits way up high on t… | Flickr
The turbine is on the left, the generator on the right
File:Turbogenerator-TG-1M-of-LV-steam-loco.jpg - Wikimedia Commons
BEAUSABREThird – We now have an electric light
UV Modeller I am wondering if with the plans I am already working on if it’s more efficient, cost effective or prototypical even to purchase this locomotive just for the boiler and perhaps the firebox and then completely overhaul everything else. Or if it's better to scratch build it with the rest of the locomotive, as was the original plan. The goal of this project is to have a locomotive as close to the prototype as I possibly can For an HO model.
I can’t even find dimensions for that Ken Kidder model.