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EMD E7 configurations

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, November 23, 2021 12:44 PM

ndbprr

E units were notoriouslybad Hill climbers due ro the six wheel trucks. One axle was an unpowered idler to create a better ride reducing weight on the drive axles compared to an F unit. Hence why ATSF went with mostly F units due to Cajon pass and Raton pass or another in New Mexico

 

 
Yup, that's why GN's E-7s soon ended up working (generally by themselves) on trains like the Gopher/Badger or other 5-6 car flatland "pocket streamliners". They were bought to use on the Empire Builder, but couldn't handle the mountains. Also why NP never bought E-units.
Stix
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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 23, 2021 11:40 AM

PRR ran its last E7 interchangeably with E8s in pairs taking over from GG1s at South Amboy.

I don't think PRR ran them much in freight -- by the time of the TrucTrain experiments they had plenty of superior E8s... and if those had a problem with back transition and heavy consists I suspect the E7 eould be no better...

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Posted by NHTX on Saturday, November 20, 2021 12:41 AM

     Rock Island's AB-6 was not the only single-engined "E" unit.  In August of 1940,  EMC delivered No. 7100, to the Missouri Pacific.  Essentially half of a current production E-6A, as with the RI unit, a baggage compartment occupied the position of the second 1000 HP prime mover.  EMC gave it the model designation AA-6 or half an E-6, yet referred to it as their last "motor car".  EMC had been a prolific builder of Winton engined doodlebugs, thus the motor car reference, as this unit had a baggage compartment, in true doodlebug fashion. 

     "Missouri Pacific Diesel Power" by Kevin EuDaly, ISBN 0-89745-99-1, states that in 1941, the 7100 was used on the Delta Eagle, two car passenger train in Arkansas.  Another bizarre feature of MoPac prewar EMC passenger power (E-3, E-4, E-6) was the use of portholes instead of the square windows found on other roads locomotives, of the same model, up to and, including the E-7.  The 7100 met its demise, going to scrap in 1962, truly ending EMC's doodlebug production.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, November 19, 2021 8:25 PM

ndbprr

Rock Island went one step further

 They had an e7A&B that ran from Chicago to Denver and Colorado Springs.  Somewhere in Eastern Colorado the sections would spilt and the B unit would go to Colorado Springs alone while the A went To Denver.  The B was equipped with marker boards on its front along with a headlight, a small square window and a humongous roof bulge with a Mars light. The side had what looked like a car window and frame. I think EMD called it An AB6. Finished its life as a commuter engine around Chicago.

 

The AB6 is based off the E6, not the E7.  It originally was ordered for the short lived Kansas City section of the Rocky Mountain Rocket.  This section split off the train at Belleville KS and operated to Kansas City via McFarland and Topeka KS. 

Originally the AB6 only had one diesel prime mover.  The space where the other diesel would've been was used as baggage space.  Eventually it was found to be underpowered and a second diesel was installed.

Trains Magazine had a photo series, also appearing in some Kalmbach books and special issues, of the Denver and Colorado Springs sections being switched together at Limon CO in the 1950s.

Jeff 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, November 19, 2021 7:23 PM

ndbprr

E units were notoriouslybad Hill climbers due ro the six wheel trucks. One axle was an unpowered idler to create a better ride reducing weight on the drive axles compared to an F unit. Hence why ATSF went with mostly F units due to Cajon pass and Raton pass or another in New Mexico

 

All true, and yet the big east coast roads loved them for passenger service to the point of simply using more of them on the trains thru the mountains.

Most B&O trains were 9 to 15 cars, and three E units were common on east/west trains over 10 cars.

I think it had a lot to do steam heat capacity and speed. The six wheel truck did track better allowing higher speeds on curvy mountain routes and the E's had considerably larger water tanks for steam boilers.

The ATSF solved these problems with F units in other ways but operating conditions are very different when comparing the ATSF to the B&O or other Appalachian roads.

I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, but the B&O was actually one of the first E unit buyers, and had one of the largest fleets of E units by the time EMD stopped making them.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by John-NYBW on Friday, November 19, 2021 5:15 PM

Modern diesels aren't all that reliable either. I did a roundtrip between Montreal and Halifax and on the return trip, we awoke the following morning to learn both diesels had broken down and they were awaiting a pair of replacements. On top of that, by the time the replacement diesels arrived, the crew had reached their 16 hour max shift so we waited even longer for a relief crew to arrive in the middle of nowhere. Because our train was so far behind schedule, we had to make way for the scheduled freights in both directions. We were supposed to arrive in Montreal around 10 am and it was well after midnight before we made it. The worst part was the crew aboard this VIA rail train was arrogant to the point of being obnoxious. I wouldn't book another trip on VIA rail if they paid me. 

Sorry, I didn't intend this to become a rant but once I started telling the story, I got worked up again. 

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Posted by ndbprr on Friday, November 19, 2021 4:47 PM

E units were notoriouslybad Hill climbers due ro the six wheel trucks. One axle was an unpowered idler to create a better ride reducing weight on the drive axles compared to an F unit. Hence why ATSF went with mostly F units due to Cajon pass and Raton pass or another in New Mexico

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, November 19, 2021 10:43 AM

7j43k

If a single unit could do the job, a second one was usually not added.

 

I rode the GN "Badger" from Minneapolis to Superior WI about the time that picture was taken, the train like that one just had the one E7.

Early streamlined trains were often fairly short, 4-6 cars, and often used just one E unit. As trains got longer, the railroad often added a second or third diesel, but it still wasn't uncommon to see a train with one E-unit provided there were no steep grades. Sometimes (as with GN's Gopher / Badger), a second diesel would be added in the depth of winter just to help provide enough steam to heat the cars.

Also, first generation diesels weren't all that reliable, and sometimes railroads would add an 'extra' diesel to a train "just in case".

Stix
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, November 19, 2021 9:54 AM

tstage
And here's a couple of pics of that said locomotive...

I love it!

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by dti406 on Friday, November 19, 2021 9:07 AM

Ed's picture of the Wabash with one unit is usual with EMD units on the Wabash, but they always ran the PA's in pairs as if the prime mover broke down they would still have power. No necessary with EMD's as they had two prime movers in each unit.

The section from Fort Wayne to Toledo was powered with one GP7.

 

Rick Jesionowski 

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 19, 2021 7:15 AM

ndbprr

Rock Island went one step further

 They had an e7A&B that ran from Chicago to Denver and Colorado Springs.  Somewhere in Eastern Colorado the sections would spilt and the B unit would go to Colorado Springs alone while the A went To Denver.  The B was equipped with marker boards on its front along with a headlight, a small square window and a humongous roof bulge with a Mars light. The side had what looked like a car window and frame. I think EMD called it An AB6. Finished its life as a commuter engine around Chicago. 

I had never heard of that before. Here are a couple of links to photos for those who may be interested.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/685532374508766517/

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/ab6-of-the-rock-island-rocket-at-colorado-springs--501940320955907248/

Rich

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Posted by tstage on Friday, November 19, 2021 7:12 AM

And here's a couple of pics of that said locomotive...

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by ndbprr on Friday, November 19, 2021 7:08 AM

And probably the only B unit ever that required turning for the return trip

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Posted by ndbprr on Friday, November 19, 2021 6:50 AM

Rock Island went one step further

 They had an e7A&B that ran from Chicago to Denver and Colorado Springs.  Somewhere in Eastern Colorado the sections would spilt and the B unit would go to Colorado Springs alone while the A went To Denver.  The B was equipped with marker boards on its front along with a headlight, a small square window and a humongous roof bulge with a Mars light. The side had what looked like a car window and frame. I think EMD called it An AB6. Finished its life as a commuter engine around Chicago.

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Posted by John-NYBW on Friday, November 19, 2021 6:44 AM

tstage

Rich, thanks for the archived post link.  And thanks, fellas, for the additional prototype information!  Good stuff!

Tom

 

I appreciate this information as well. When Walthers came out with their 20th Century Limited, I bought two As and a B unit. I already had a pair of E8 As. I run lots of passenger trains and it's nice to know I can mix and match the Es as I see fit.

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Posted by tstage on Friday, November 19, 2021 5:58 AM

Rich, thanks for the archived post link.  And thanks, fellas, for the additional prototype information!  Good stuff!

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by NHTX on Friday, November 19, 2021 12:09 AM

     New York Central had E-7A, E-7B and, E-8As and mixed them indiscriminately to get trains over the Berkshires from Boston.  They also mixed the PA-1s with the E-8s.  During the early 1960s, the New England States often ran with 15 cars, requiring a three unit power set.  Interestingly, no E-7s were built with dynamic brakes, limiting their usefulness in freight service, if the owner had grades.

     Those Santa Fe "E-8"s, are in fact "E-8m"s.  Instead of the normal 2250 HP of a true E-8, they had only 2000 HP.  EMD built them using components from Santa Fe's early EMC boxcabs nos.1 and, 1A, and the slant nosed 1800 HP passenger units that were very similar to B&O's famous cabs.  According to "Santa Fe's Diesel Fleet" by Joe McMillan,  Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 74-17815, all members of the 80 class (E-8m) were retired by July 1970.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, November 18, 2021 10:45 PM

The B&O had lots of E7's and E8's, and B units. They mixed and matched them and most trains had at least two powered units, AA or AB, and sometimes three units.

I think the PRR useage was very similar, mostly two and three unit lashups.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by DrW on Thursday, November 18, 2021 10:36 PM

The Santa Fe did not have E7s, but the slightly more powerful E8s (2250 HP versus 2000 HP)). In the 1950s, our local Amarillo-Lubbock run often consisted of a single E8A with a coach and a baggage car (plus occasionally through-sleeper(s) from Chicago). E.g., in 1959, one E8A unit (#80) was assigned to the Plains Division for the Amarillo-Lubbock train. If the E8A was not available, a steam generator-equipped GP7 was used.

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 18, 2021 7:54 PM

tstage

Were EMD E7As generally MU'd with their B-units (or another A)?  Or were they ever run solo by themselves?

Here is a very old thread with lots of very good information.

https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/27916/369364.aspx

Rich

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, November 18, 2021 6:58 PM

Above is the single E7A that pulled the Portland section of the Empire Builder from roughly 1948 to 1953.

The famous Train of Tomorrow was pulled by one E7A:

 

 

Here's the Wabash Bluebird:

 

 

GN trains from different "eras":

 

 

 

If a single unit could do the job, a second one was usually not added.

 

Ed

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EMD E7 configurations
Posted by tstage on Thursday, November 18, 2021 6:19 PM

Were EMD E7As generally MU'd with their B-units (or another A)?  Or were they ever run solo by themselves?

Thanks,

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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