My mom lived in Pikesville, just up the street from the B&O line heading northwest out of "Bawlmer". She and her friends would hear the steam trains coming through and run to the end of their street and watch them pass. Does anyone know what kind of engines (2-8-0, 4-8-0, etc.) she would have seen then?
Thanks in advance.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
I haven't yet had an opportunity to view this video, but it should show some examples from the mid-'30s to the early '70s, based on the title, which is B&O Classics 1936-1972.
That's an interesting version of what I'm guessing to be "Baltimore"...I've always loved the regionalism of languages.
Wayne
Before my time but I sure wish I could have been there:
BO by Center for Railroad Photography & Art, on Flickr
Herb Harwood has an excellent book covering the Royal Blue Line between Washington and Jersey City.
BO, Atlantic City, New Jersey, 1937 by Center for Railroad Photography & Art, on Flickr
BO, Jersey City, New Jersey, 1939 by Center for Railroad Photography & Art, on Flickr
The B&O was competing against the fast and frequent trains, plus direct access to Manhattan, that the Pennsylvania Railroad offered.
BO223 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr
Fascinating stuff!
Cheers, Ed
Most freight trains heading west out of Baltimore were pulled by (2-8-2) Mikados, usually a pair of them. 50-70 car mixed freight or empty hoppers headed west.
Those same Mikados would typically turn around at Brunswick MD and bring trains into Baltimore the next day.
Those west bound trains would require much larger power leaving Brunswick for the trip over the mountains, typically two EL class 2-8-8-0's.
West bound passenger trains would be handled by 4-6-2 Pacifics and later Mountains. 4-8-2 Mountain types would also handle high priority fast freights.
The B&O had a large fleet of Mikados and 2-8-0 Consolidations, so Consolidations would also be seen paired up on mainline freights or working local freights.
If you can find it, there was a five book soft cover series called "50 Best of the B&O" by E L Tommy Thompson and others published in 1977/79 that is a treasure of B&O photos. Some 200 photos of B&O locos in action.
Sheldon
gmpullman Before my time but I sure wish I could have been there:
The downside to that is if you had been there, you would probably be dead now.
My fantasy would be to ride in the observation car of the 20th Century Limited, sipping scotch while the train raced north along the Hudson River.
I asked this question many years ago. Would you be willing to give up all the modern conveniences we now take for granted to have lived in either the transition era or the steam era? I'd have to think long and hard about that but would be sorely tempted to ride the 20th Century Limited in the 1950s.
John-NYBWI'd have to think long and hard about that but would be sorely tempted to ride the 20th Century Limited in the 1950s.
Yes, I too have often mulled over the prospect. I think I'd pick the spring of 1938 so I could still ride the heavyweight Century and be one of the first passengers on the "New" streamlined Century of June 15th 1938.
Century_life1 by Edmund, on Flickr
Century_life38 by Edmund, on Flickr
Perchance, to dream... aye, there's the rub.
gmpullman John-NYBW I'd have to think long and hard about that but would be sorely tempted to ride the 20th Century Limited in the 1950s. Yes, I too have often mulled over the prospect. I think I'd pick the spring of 1938 so I could still ride the heavyweight Century and be one of the first passengers on the "New" streamlined Century of June 15th 1938. Century_life1 by Edmund, on Flickr Century_life38 by Edmund, on Flickr Perchance, to dream... aye, there's the rub. Cheers, Ed
John-NYBW I'd have to think long and hard about that but would be sorely tempted to ride the 20th Century Limited in the 1950s.
On second thought, I might have to agree with you on that. I was thinking of riding one of the Creek obs but those were part of the 1938 Century so it would be the best of both worlds to ride one behind the Dreyfus Hudson.
I have the Walthers 1948 version of the 20th Century and the MTH 1938 set. I put passengers and a waiter in the obs on the 1948 set, creating a scene similar to your photo.
ATLANTIC CENTRALMost freight trains heading west out of Baltimore were pulled by (2-8-2) Mikados, usually a pair of them. 50-70 car mixed freight or empty hoppers headed west. Those same Mikados would typically turn around at Brunswick MD and bring trains into Baltimore the next day.
@Wayne, yes "Bawlmer" is local for Baltimore, the same way citizens of Columbus, Ohio, call their town "Clumps". I love those regionalisms, too.
In looking at videos, and even some of the photos shared here, I saw steam locos being aided by back-to-back F units. I had never even imagined that combination before!
Thanks for the pertinent information. As to IMpertinent information, I will now step off and let the conversation continue to drift off to what period trains members wish they had lived to ride. All aboard!
crossthedog ATLANTIC CENTRAL Most freight trains heading west out of Baltimore were pulled by (2-8-2) Mikados, usually a pair of them. 50-70 car mixed freight or empty hoppers headed west. Those same Mikados would typically turn around at Brunswick MD and bring trains into Baltimore the next day. Thanks for this info, Sheldon. I just spent a coffee-break's worth of time studying aerial imagery and perhaps I should have said "heading north" instead of northwest, although the overall trajectory is more west than east. The line that went through Pikesville never goes to Brunswick, it keeps chuffing north across the Mason-Dixon line and splits between Hanover and York. @Wayne, yes "Bawlmer" is local for Baltimore, the same way citizens of Columbus, Ohio, call their town "Clumps". I love those regionalisms, too. In looking at videos, and even some of the photos shared here, I saw steam locos being aided by back-to-back F units. I had never even imagined that combination before! Thanks for the pertinent information. As to IMpertinent information, I will now step off and let the conversation continue to drift off to what period trains members wish they had lived to ride. All aboard! -Matt
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Most freight trains heading west out of Baltimore were pulled by (2-8-2) Mikados, usually a pair of them. 50-70 car mixed freight or empty hoppers headed west. Those same Mikados would typically turn around at Brunswick MD and bring trains into Baltimore the next day.
Thanks for this info, Sheldon. I just spent a coffee-break's worth of time studying aerial imagery and perhaps I should have said "heading north" instead of northwest, although the overall trajectory is more west than east. The line that went through Pikesville never goes to Brunswick, it keeps chuffing north across the Mason-Dixon line and splits between Hanover and York.
Yes, I know, but the traffic west was "typical" of B&O operations here in the east.
I am not the last word on the details of all B&O operations, but I am a life long central Marylander and a life long fan and modeler of the B&O.
My freelanced ATLANTIC CENTRAL interchanges with the B&O,m C&O and WM.
ATLANTIC CENTRALYes, I know, but the traffic west was "typical" of B&O operations here in the east.
Edit: And I'm glad to meet someone from the "olde countrie", as it were. Both my parents were born and raised in Maryland. Hey, was your layout featured in a recent issue of MR?
No, not me?
crossthedog ... @Wayne, yes "Bawlmer" is local for Baltimore, the same way citizens of Columbus, Ohio, call their town "Clumps". I love those regionalisms, too. I... -Matt
...
I...
This is off topic, but your comment came as a surprise to me. I'm always amazed at how much alike we humans are, despite what seem like the interpositions of style, custom, and language. Where I grew up in south-central British Columbia, there is a city named Kamloops, after the local indigenous tongue for 'confluence of two rivers'. It's actually 'T'kemlups te secwemepc', but that's another story. My point is that, while we can tell transients by their literal pronounciation of 'KAM-loops', we locals did the same as you describe, 'kamps'.
Back to on topic, could you ever see your way to a beefy EM-1 thundering up north where your pike will be?
selectorwhile we can tell transients by their literal pronounciation of 'KAM-loops', we locals did the same as you describe, 'kamps'. Back to on topic, could you ever see your way to a beefy EM-1 thundering up north where your pike will be?
EDIT: Also, it's neat that you know the Salish, or the Tlingit, or the Haida, or whatever that First Nations phrase is.
BTW, maybe I misunderstood your question, but my pike is around here -- Northern Pacific, Great Northern and their little sibling, Spokane Portland & Seattle. I was curious about the B&O power only because my mother visits my layout and always muses how fun it would be for her to see models of some of the locomotives she grew up around. The thought has crossed my mind that I could pick up a Mikado or Consolidation and some passenger cars just to give her some delight. She cares not a farthing for other railroads but is fondly attached to the B&O.
ATLANTIC CENTRALNo, not me?
selector crossthedog ... @Wayne, yes "Bawlmer" is local for Baltimore, the same way citizens of Columbus, Ohio, call their town "Clumps". I love those regionalisms, too. I... -Matt This is off topic, but your comment came as a surprise to me. I'm always amazed at how much alike we humans are, despite what seem like the interpositions of style, custom, and language. Where I grew up in south-central British Columbia, there is a city named Kamloops, after the local indigenous tongue for 'confluence of two rivers'. It's actually 'T'kemlups te secwemepc', but that's another story. My point is that, while we can tell transients by their literal pronounciation of 'KAM-loops', we locals did the same as you describe, 'kamps'. Back to on topic, could you ever see your way to a beefy EM-1 thundering up north where your pike will be?
Generally EM-1's would have stayed out of town except if one was heading to or from the main shops which were located in southwest Baltimore. But they would have been common just 65 miles away in Brunswick.
crossthedog ATLANTIC CENTRAL No, not me? I'd have to go dig it up, but it was an issue earlier this year that spotlighted someone's Western Maryland layout. Since you guys are all such amazing modelers (superelevation? rail painting? hand-laying track? wha???) it is no stretch of my imagination to think that it might have been your layout when you said you modeled those three roads.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL No, not me?
I'd have to go dig it up, but it was an issue earlier this year that spotlighted someone's Western Maryland layout. Since you guys are all such amazing modelers (superelevation? rail painting? hand-laying track? wha???) it is no stretch of my imagination to think that it might have been your layout when you said you modeled those three roads.
Well I have been involved over the years with some layouts that have been in MR, and some layouts that have been on NMRA convention tours, etc. I just moved 3 years ago and I am about to start a new layout. There is a thread on this forum about my process of designing the new layout.
Construction will begin soon, just a few more small projects to get done first.
Here is a look at the plan.
This album of over 950 photos has some great B&O photos in it. Some from the '40s and '50s. Many are later but still worth a look:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/albums/72157718611162438
Thomas Underwood Coll B&O046 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
ATLANTIC CENTRALHere is a look at the plan.
gmpullmanThis album of over 950 photos has some great B&O photos in it. Some from the '40s and '50s. Many are later but still worth a look:
Thanks for the link, Ed.
My mother grew up in Brunswick, MD, and I spent many happy hours there visiting my grandmother and watching trains. And that large city on the bay? We lived a trifle south of it by our nation's capital, and my mom always referred to it as Balmer, Merlin.
Matt,
The B&O is pretty well documented.
I'd recommend "B&O Power" by Sagle and Stauffer which has been reprinted several times and should appear on second hand book lists.
If you can get to Baltimore, the B&O Museum is always worth a visit.
The Museum published a book "Scale Modelling and the B&O" by William Thornette. This is a big format spiral bound book (Metric A3 size pages) and it ha a lot of information about the B&O in your period of interest, including a set of drawings with photos of several locomotives, freight and passenger cars from the Steam to Diesel transition period, the drawings having been published by the B&O in the the 1940s and 1950s for modellers.
I picked up a copy on my last visit to Baltimore in 2013. It cost $9-00 (!) over the counter at the museum and it must be good value at that price for 75 pages.
For your period, the B&O operated USRA light and heavy 4-6-2s and light 2-8-2s (B&O 4501, a light 2-8-2 and the first USRA loco built is in the museum). The B&O class P-1 4-6-2 and Q-4 2-8-2 are included in the drawing set, and these show how similar to the USRA standards ordinary B&O locomotives were.
The Pikesville line is now used by MARC for commuter service, so I assume the B&O probably operated similar services in the 1940s.
But generally you should have no trouble finding data on the locomotives and cars from your era of interest, and many models already available. Rivarossi used to make a model of the B&O 2-10-2 and again, one might be available used.
Peter