wjstixI think in 1953 the "defect detectors" were primarily the railroad's employees. If a train stopped a sidetrack for a meet, their crew would watch the train passing them and then signal to the caboose crew that everything was OK, or use hand signals to indicate a problem (like holding their nose to indicate a hotbox). Same thing would happen at stations, signal towers, crossing shantys, etc. Railroaders looking out for each other.
They still do that today, even with all the yard checks and automated hot box and dragging detectors.
If you listen to the radio scanner when two trains pass each other, or pass someone on the ground, you'll head something like "Good on the {direction} side" as they give each other "rolling inspections" for shifted loads, loose strapping, visible running issues etc.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
OvermodWhy can the center rows of airbrake-hose segments be eliminated if the detectors detailed in S-241-K are installed, per the note for the snow guard?
The opposite. What the note says is if the detectors ARE installed per S-241-K the middle hoses should be installed.
Drawing S-241-K shows 5 detector loops, with one in the middle of the track. When they are installed like that, per that diagram, then the guard hoses have to be installed all across the tie.
That implies that there is an alternate drawing that only has 4 detector loops, and when that plan is used, since it doesn't have the loop in the center of the track, it doesn't need the hoses in the middle of the track.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
OvermodWhat is a 'parkway outlet' and why are the specific design details for them in S-241-K taken?
It appears to be a kind of conduit for the detector circuitry, probably made by the "Parkway Co.".
I have a couple of questions about stuff I find I don't know.
What is a 'parkway outlet' and why are the specific design details for them in S-241-K taken?
Why can the center rows of airbrake-hose segments be eliminated if the detectors detailed in S-241-K are installed, per the note for the snow guard?
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I believe that is an acoustic detector that trips when it "hears" something hit the metal guard.
If you have a timetable for the area of interest in the time period of interest, the special instructions should list defect detectors. If nothing listed then there might not be any.
gmpullmanWould it be like this?
In my opinion much better than a brittle-bar detector in many respects.
OvermodEd, have you got a picture of the type used on the PC by the early'70s?
Would it be like this?
Drag detector by Patrick, on Flickr
I have some other books that may have a photo or two. I looked through my 1963 N.Y.C. Signal Dept. Diagrams and didn't find anything.
PRR had a detector protector made up of dozens of cut-off lengths of air brake hose standing like soldiers spiked to a tie ahead of the detector. They called it a snow guard.
Snow-Guard_PRR by Edmund, on Flickr
Had to find something for those apprentices to do. Note the 1940 date.
Regards, Ed
SeeYou190I am going to work that into the lyrics of the next coutry song I write.
I hope it goes as high in the charts as this little ditty did!
Funny thing is, While doing some wheelbarrow work the other day I was actually playing this tune in my head... all the live-long day
For a country song you have to work your dog dying into the lyrics somehow
Happy Days ! Ed
gmpullmanActually he's quite thrilled. He worked up to this job after doing twelve years on the spike-straightening pile:
I am going to work that into the lyrics of the next coutry song I write.
Loving you was like spending
12 years on the Pennsylvania spike pile
Straightening, sorting, and bending
Life getting worse in the meanwhile
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Overmod wrote: "I never found out precisely what tripping the presumably connected switch actually did..."
Amtrak had those "flapper-type" dragging equipment detectors on the Hell Gate line (they're probably still there). When activated, it sent an alarm to the dispatcher's office.
I was going west up the Hell Gate Bridge and got a call from the dispatcher that we tripped a DED.
Stopped on the curve just before the portals, walked to the back (8 cars), found the brake pipe hose had come loose and was hanging down. Got it secured, walked back to the engine, and we finished the run.
Ed, have you got a picture of the type used on the PC by the early'70s? These used a flap of doubled-over elastomer, a bit like tire-tread rubber, and a hinge below tie level with a crank and pushrod arrangement (I never found out precisely what tripping the presumably connected switch actually did...)
Somewhere in my stacks I have some photos of this type of early "non-automatic" reset dragging equipment detector.
Detector_PRR by Edmund, on Flickr
You can bet they were a design of Union Switch & Signal, a favored PRR supplier. The gray iron "arms" were somewhat easily broken, nicknamed brittle bars, thus opening the series circuit and dropping the signal.
Good Luck, Ed
wjstixRailroaders looking out for each other. Ad
Not only that, but it was in Rules of the Operating Department
I think in 1953 the "defect detectors" were primarily the railroad's employees. If a train stopped a sidetrack for a meet, their crew would watch the train passing them and then signal to the caboose crew that everything was OK, or use hand signals to indicate a problem (like holding their nose to indicate a hotbox). Same thing would happen at stations, signal towers, crossing shantys, etc. Railroaders looking out for each other.
I don't think IR hotbox detectors were deployed until later in the '50s. Most of the approaches before then were 'self-contained' like the smoke and stink capsules.
One 'defect detector' PRR used earlier was the flap-type dragging equipment detector. These can be fun to model.
gmpullmanHe worked up to this job after doing twelve years on the spike-straightening pile
SeeYou190That guy does not look happy at all.
Actually he's quite thrilled. He worked up to this job after doing twelve years on the spike-straightening pile:
BnM_Billerica-shop by Edmund, on Flickr
Although he admits it can be the pits on some days.
Cheers, Ed
gmpullmanIf you really want to make an interesting scene, cut out a little pit and put this fellow inside his inspection hooch.
That guy does not look happy at all.
If you really want to make an interesting scene, cut out a little pit and put this fellow inside his inspection hooch.
Car Inspector Pit_Juniata Scales 1-17-30 by Edmund, on Flickr
This was at the East End of the Altoona yard. Hump tower in the background. Note the two nozzles that would squirt a splash of white wash on to the offending car to be set out since, It would appear, the inspector couldn't very well read the car number, although it was usually stenciled on the truck bolster. Still too hard for him to see. These cars would most likely be sent to the RIP track.
There's an ebay seller that offers LED flood lights very similar to the larger ones shown here. They would have to be reduced in height but I have done this and easily made new brackets for them.
dehusman The defect detectors of that era would have only detected hot boxes and dragging equipment if they existed. Neither of which would have gone to a RIP track. They would have been set out and repaired in place on line. The vast majority of RIP track business is found with the two inspections every car has in the yard and then rejects from industry. On the inbound side the exterior of the car is inspected for loose grap irons, defective doors, defective handbrakes, defective bearings, etc. On the outbound side the brake system is inspected. At industry, cars that are unfit for loading are rejected and returned to the railroad for reassignment or repair.
The defect detectors of that era would have only detected hot boxes and dragging equipment if they existed. Neither of which would have gone to a RIP track. They would have been set out and repaired in place on line. The vast majority of RIP track business is found with the two inspections every car has in the yard and then rejects from industry.
On the inbound side the exterior of the car is inspected for loose grap irons, defective doors, defective handbrakes, defective bearings, etc.
On the outbound side the brake system is inspected.
At industry, cars that are unfit for loading are rejected and returned to the railroad for reassignment or repair.
That's really helpful thank you so much. I'll take my idea for the detectors and apply it to the yard instead. Your explanation of earlier detectors gives me some ideas as well for adding some interesting wrenches into ops to spice things up instead of the same old same all the time.
Join PRR@PRR.GROUPS.IO. the group has experts on every facet of the PRR. I would bet if any did exist they will tell you the number and physical locations. Several members are former PRR high level employees who freely share their knowledge.
I have interest in adding a RIP track operation mechanic with randomized cards to my layout. I'm modeling the mainline of the PRR between pittsburgh and altoona. I cant find much history on detectors. What I've found is they started being used in the 40s but I cant find anything on how much use they had during this time specifically for PRR in 1953 as suggested by the title. Any info anyone may have is greatly appreciated.