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One door passenger cars

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One door passenger cars
Posted by NYBob on Sunday, August 1, 2021 12:43 PM

Do you position them all doors facing forward, all to rear or group them rear-front,rear- front and make multiple platform stops?

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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, August 1, 2021 1:23 PM

The Southern Pacific connected the cars with the doors next to each other, I would guess it was for easier boarding.


Mel



 
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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, August 1, 2021 2:23 PM

Funny thing:  I've just been working on that question for the Union Pacific City of Portland.

There's a couple of UP publicity pictures that show the full train from about 1955, with the new domes.

There are 4 coaches, including the dome coach.  The doors go rear-front-rear-front for them.  I think it's so that one person can load two cars at a time.

The sleepers are all door forward EXCEPT the sleeper-lounge and the 11 bedroom car.

 

For UP, though, it seems the typical case is all doors to the front.  That will be my setup for my 1950 version of the train--especially since the seats in the (model) coaches face that way.  And there was no sleeper-lounge or 11 bedroom car to deal with.

 

For the GN's dome Empire Builder, it was all doors to the rear (except, of course, for the observation car).

For the previous 1951 non-dome Empire Builder, for each train there was two coaches with door forward and one coach with door rearward.  

 

So.  "It all depends."

If you're trying to build a particular train, you of course copy that layout.  If you're freelancing, it's your choice.  Just don't make your passengers in coach face to the rear--makes 'em cranky.

 

As far as multiple platform stops, they were done as necessary.  Keep in mind the length of platform kind of goes with the size of the town.  For a very small town, IF there were both coach passengers and sleeper passengers, they'd make two stops. While the Empire Builder DID have six sleepers and might not be able to get all six at a platform, GN staff would likely try to put passengers going to such a place in only two of the six cars.  Most any platform is at least two cars long.

Same for the coach passengers.  There's a "shorts" coach.  So they'd likely put "small town" people on that one or the following long distance coach.  Again, just two adjacent cars.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by angelob6660 on Sunday, August 1, 2021 5:52 PM

NYBob

Do you position them all doors facing forward, all to rear or group them rear-front,rear- front and make multiple platform stops?

 
Look at Amtrak pulling their Amfleet II coaches. It follows the same method as streamlined passenger trains.
 
Doors away from the locomotive. If the lounge, diner, or dome have doors it still stays the same. If they don't have doors you flip the car around so the previous car has a door. This stays the same when the observation is hooked up.
 

Modeling the G.N.O. Railway, The Diamond Route.

Amtrak America, 1971-Present.

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Posted by KitbashOn30 on Sunday, August 1, 2021 10:41 PM

NYBob
and make multiple platform stops?

Taking multiple platform stops as a standalone question independent of the door facing issue, yes, that is done; or at least a double stop is done, double being different from multiple.

For example, Amtrak's Southwest Chief trains 3 and 4 have for years made a double stop at La Plata, Missouri, to seperately board coach and sleeper passengers when train length and passenger types require it. Those 2 types of cars seem to be divided by the diner as standard practice.

Platform was lengthened and renewed in recent years so sometimes only one stop is made now, but a double stop still happens at times.

Right now I forget which is which, one is westbound, other eastbound; one stops in morning, other stops in evening.

Check Amtrak Alerts on twitter and Amtrak's own track-your-train page for schedule and current delays; trains can be watched live at that stop here, 
https://youtu.be/AAQUGsUzWbE

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Posted by cv_acr on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 10:15 AM

NYBob

Do you position them all doors facing forward, all to rear or group them rear-front,rear- front and make multiple platform stops?

Orientation preferences depend on the railway. Check photos. Usually they'll be oriented the same way. Sometimes they may pair the vestibules so a single attendant can be stationed at two steps.

I'm not sure what you mean about "multiple platform stops". That wouldn't have any bearing on vestibule orientation. If a station platform isn't long enough to fit the whole train, I'd guess that they'd try to assign passengers destined for that location to a particular car, so they spot that car(s) against the platform. No moving and "multiple stops".

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, August 4, 2021 11:05 AM

As I understand it, it wouldn't be unusual at a stop at a passenger station with a relatively short platform (like a small-medium sized town might have) to stop the train so the headend cars were near the station, and for the passengers to be instructed to board or disembark from the front of the train.

Stix
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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, August 4, 2021 3:07 PM

wjstix

As I understand it, it wouldn't be unusual at a stop at a passenger station with a relatively short platform (like a small-medium sized town might have) to stop the train so the headend cars were near the station, and for the passengers to be instructed to board or disembark from the front of the train.

 

 

I can see that happening for the coaches at the front of the train.  But I don't think they'd have Pullman customers walking the length of the train to get off.  Hence: two stops.

I wonder how it would be for an all-coach or all-Pullman train.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, August 4, 2021 4:43 PM

One theory, practiced by a few roads, or on a few speicific trains, says cars ahead of the diner have vestibules to the rear, cars behind the diner have vestibules to the front, effectively placing a vestibule at every coupling and evenly spacing them along the train since diners typically do not have vestibules.

Additionally, almost all streamlined sleepers with double bedrooms or drawing rooms were arranged to put the rooms on the right side of the train/aisles on the left, with the vestibule facing forward. In areas of double track, mostly running righthand rule, this gave the passengers the better view, leaving the aisle with the view of the trains passing close by in the other direction.

There are exceptions to this design, but a quick review of several passenger car plan books I have showed it to be about 10 to 1 in favor aisles on the left with the vestibule facing forward.

This fits in with the idea that cars behind the diner, usually the sleepers and lounges, are usually run vestibule forward.

Other point of interest, some dome cars had vestibules, some did not.

Since the operating conditions on every line are/where different, railroads did what suited each situation.

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, August 9, 2021 8:42 AM

7j43k
 
wjstix

As I understand it, it wouldn't be unusual at a stop at a passenger station with a relatively short platform (like a small-medium sized town might have) to stop the train so the headend cars were near the station, and for the passengers to be instructed to board or disembark from the front of the train.

 

 

 

 

I can see that happening for the coaches at the front of the train.  But I don't think they'd have Pullman customers walking the length of the train to get off.  Hence: two stops.

I wonder how it would be for an all-coach or all-Pullman train.

 

 

Ed

 
The "Catch-22" being if there were enough passengers to warrant two stops, they'd probably just find a way to expand the station's platform. Otherwise, if a train stopped at North Podunk and 4 sleeper car passengers wanted to get off and 2 board, I'd think they could do it from the front half of the train. That would be much more efficient than the process of starting the train back up, moving it ahead several hundred feet, stopping the train, loading and unloading a few passengers, etc.
 
It's unlikely a top-of-the-line all-Pullman train would be stopping at such a station in the first place, since they were usually "limiteds" - limited stop trains, only stopping at larger cities.
 
 
Stix
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Posted by wjstix on Monday, August 9, 2021 8:59 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Additionally, almost all streamlined sleepers with double bedrooms or drawing rooms were arranged to put the rooms on the right side of the train/aisles on the left, with the vestibule facing forward. In areas of double track, mostly running righthand rule, this gave the passengers the better view, leaving the aisle with the view of the trains passing close by in the other direction.

In addition, on the New York Central's New York - Chicago "Water Level Route", the line ran part of the way wedged in between the Hudson river on one side and high bluffs on the other. Cars with aisles on the side were normally arranged so the aisle side was always towards the bluffs, so passenger rooms / compartments always faced the river.

Stix
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Posted by NorthBrit on Monday, August 9, 2021 9:31 AM

Trains on the former North British Railway   Border Counties Railway line in Northumberland, UK,  were usually five or six carriages in length.

The 1110 Newcastle to Hawick was (mainly)  eight carriages long.  At stations along the line the train had to make two stops as the platforms were not long enough to accommodate a long train.

I have a photograph of the train at Wark Station on 13th October 1956.  Wark was one station with a long platform (compared to the other stations along the line).  Two stops were made there also.

The train was always late into Hawick.  Later in the day it returned to Newcastle;  late again for the same reason.

 

David

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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, August 9, 2021 4:37 PM

The Slip Coach was an attempt to cure the time wasted at station stops.

This would be a fun operation to model Cool

Cheers, Ed

 

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, August 10, 2021 9:09 AM

I recall John Armstrong designed a U.K. layout that would use a slip coach, he talked about maybe you could add some sort of mechanism to the car to make it coast farther than a regular model car would - like a flywheel gizmo like the old toy automobiles used to use.

Stix
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Posted by NorthBrit on Tuesday, August 10, 2021 9:39 AM

wjstix

I recall John Armstrong designed a U.K. layout that would use a slip coach, he talked about maybe you could add some sort of mechanism to the car to make it coast farther than a regular model car would - like a flywheel gizmo like the old toy automobiles used to use.

 

 
 
I do not remember the name of the modeler, but he had a manual uncoupler on the main line.   When the train passed he switched the uncoupler which unhooked the last carriage.  The train then speeded up.  A turnout was switched and  the last carriage to coast into the station  siding.
 
The art was having the train traveling at a certain speed, so when the last carriage was freed  and coasted to the siding, it did not hit the bufferstop.
 
David

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DrW
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Posted by DrW on Tuesday, August 10, 2021 7:38 PM

The GM Aerotrain had short cars (40') with a door at the end. The cars were based on a GM bus design and had backwards slanted windows. At some point late in the life of the Aerotrain the last owner, the Rock Island, decided to pair the doors together. This resulted in the rather odd look of alternating backward and forward slanted windows.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/CRIP_2_at_Englewood_Union_Station%2C_Chicago%2C_April_21%2C_1965_%2822368082146%29.jpg/1280px-CRIP_2_at_Englewood_Union_Station%2C_Chicago%2C_April_21%2C_1965_%2822368082146%29.jpg

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, August 10, 2021 10:21 PM

 

I'm feeling nauseous.

 

Ed

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