dti406Concept Models are not for the faint of heart. Most of them are poorly engineered resin kits that are very rough and require a lot of extra parts and ingenuity to complete.
I bought the kit and it arrived in the mail today. Rick is 100% correct. These castings are pporly made and do not fit well at all. This kit is going to require some extra work when I get around to it.
If I can complete it, it will be lettered for GERN Industries.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
gmpullman doctorwayne Before this thread was posted, I'd not seen a tank car with free-standing multiple tanks. It has been discussed a time or two: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/262669.aspx http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/268271.aspx Cheers, Ed
doctorwayne
It has been discussed a time or two:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/262669.aspx
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/268271.aspx
Cheers, Ed
Hah! You're right, Ed, and I apparently participated in those threads, too. I've obviously got a mind like a steel trap seive.
Wayne
OvermodYet another reason to wish Randy were here is that he'd now know.
Somehow, we will have to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and persevere.
OvermodIt occurs to me that tank slosh and hence excessive venting would be precluded in these shorter tanks. Ed will find detail information on those large dome valves before I do, but I think they are in part to control overpressure in volatile liquids with high spot vapor pressure like high-test gasoline.
Much has been written in the ARA/AAR/ICC books on tank valving and piping arrangements.
Dome_Valves_0001 by Edmund, on Flickr
Some domes were designed with access hatches to actuate the bottom valve. Note the break-off groove on the discharge pipe. Some of the tank cars I have unloaded (mostly anhydrous ammonia) were top discharge with a dip-tube into a sump. Sometimes these were pumped out, other times we pressurized the tank to force the commodity out.
Dome_Valves by Edmund, on Flickr
Tanks with approved manhole closures were stencilled with this marker:
AAR_Tank_Manhole by Edmund, on Flickr
AAR_Tank_closure by Edmund, on Flickr
Some cars had both self-reseating relief valves and frangible burst disks or a combination of the two.
I don't see why "sloshing" would be any different in three individual tanks rather than a compartmentalized, single shelled tank?
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2019-title49-vol3/xml/CFR-2019-title49-vol3-part179.xml
Tank cars are a fascinating study.
Regards, Ed
Interesting how many questions in the older threads have been addressed so far in this one. Yet another reason to wish Randy were here is that he'd now know.
"Unitemp" was a Union Tank Car tradename for insulated 'Thermos' cars -- they had a variety of insulation "systems" advertised as effective from cryo at -320F to heated at 600F. One of these systems useful for typical petroleum range might have been the cork used in the experimental ARCO tank built for propane-turbine experiments on UP in the early '50s. Surely there is a technical reference or brochure somewhere...
I don't think this is the same thing as Transcisco's Unitemp, which was controlled heating (perhaps adaptable to cooling) equipment they made as a supplier. I can't get the LA Times story to open correctly for me, but here is a more technical one:
https://www.joc.com/transcisco-supply-tank-cars-soviets_19890404.html
It occurs to me that tank slosh and hence excessive venting would be precluded in these shorter tanks. Ed will find detail information on those large dome valves before I do, but I think they are in part to control overpressure in volatile liquids with high spot vapor pressure like high-test gasoline.
I have seen pictures of these cars specifically labeled by gasoline type and tetraethyllead content. That made sense for using multicompartment tank wagons of similar arrangement to make deliveries to service stations once pumps with multiple grades were introduced. An interesting thing in Memphis is that there are only two refineries but a great many different branded stations... often served by branded trucks that you can see going relatively indiscriminately through refinery gates where customers won't be noticing...
Occurs to me that the same might apply to a small regional delivery where the labeled three-compartment tank is parked and the various branded tank wagons access it.
doctorwayneBefore this thread was posted, I'd not seen a tank car with free-standing multiple tanks.
Before this thread was posted, I'd not seen a tank car with free-standing multiple tanks.
For quite some time, I didn't have more than a couple of tank cars on my layout.However, around the time that the Proto-2000 kits came out, I started finding a lot of poorly-built or not-finished Proto tank car kits on the "used" table at a nearby hobby shop. Many had missing or broken details, and a lot of them were smeared with an excess of ca. Most were "on sale" for a couple of bucks, so I got a couple to see if they could be repaired.Most of the ca came off when I stripped the factory paint, and I was able to scrape-off the rest when I removed the grabirons and sill steps (most already broken).
I drilled out any of the mounting holes that had broken-off material in them, then used suitably-sized styrene rod to plug the all of oversize holes. After the cement had hardened, I re-drilled new holes, sized to accept Tichy's .0125" preformed grabirons.
I used Black Cat decals to finish the re-worked cars, and later, over several visits, got several more tank cars to "rescue". When LifeLike decided to offer their r-t-r cars, I got a few more bargains, mostly done not too terribly, also at decent prices. I stripped them, too, as all of the grabirons were the too-thick plastic ones. The Black Cat decals are very complete, and certainly helped to make these two look pretty decent...
I also have a couple of Tangent tank cars, including this little 3-dome car for hauling some very dense GERN liquid compounds...
Judging by the rivet patterns, the prototypes appeared to have domed bulkhead-ends for each tank segment.
A 168 pieces of decal later, GERN Industries had a car to get those products to the industries that needed them...
This one was a train-show find, also for a couple of bucks, so I decided to modify it a bit with a different handrail arrangement, and, of course, replaced some cast-on details with free-standing parts.While I've seen mention that this Athearn car is not at all prototypical, it does look, by the rivet pattern, that the compartments each have their own domed bulkhead ends, too.
One might even start with a Tichy or Athearn tank car underframe and add side pieces and saddles.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Pay careful attention to the groups.io pictures in the link. The walkway and access question is addressed there.
The IOX cars do have 'ladders and walkways' on the other side of the car from our pictures, and these would be important to 'replicate'.
Here's a link to an IO. Group showing a model and a prototype.
https://plasticfreightcarbuiilders.groups.io/g/PlasticFreightCarBuiilders/topic/imperial_oil_company/82565970?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,82565970
OvermodDuplicate the prototype construction.
Do what?
You have been reading my posts and looking at pictures of my projects since January, 2017.
When have you ever heard me say something like "I would like this model to look like a prototype."
I build SEMI-PLAUSIBLE NONSENSE.
I don't think any of these are flatcars -- they are skeleton frames and fabricated plate, with the use of saddles in place of heavy bolsters being one of the patent notes on construction.
I'd use materials like thin styrene and card and duplicate the prototype construction -- perhaps putting weight into the riveted 'center sill' construction or the tank-side support beams if you use them.
Thanks for that heads-up Rick.
The castings do look very rough. I think if I get this kit, I will use a Tichy 40 foot flat car kit to mount the tanks on. That flat car casting is too nasty for me!
I have a couple of the Tichy 40 foot 50 ton flat car kits on hand (somewhere).
SeeYou190Did these become mandatory hardware at a later date? I do not have any tank car models that do not have ladders.
As far as I can tell the ladder is for the convenience of the car owner. The AAR (or MCB in early days) only required that the railroad employee could ride the car safely and have access to the brake wheel and retainer valve.
Tank construction and mounting, expansion chambers, valving and relief valves got plenty of regulation, though. Even going back to 1903 which, I believe was the first meeting of the tank car committee of the A. A. R.
Concept Models are not for the faint of heart. Most of them are poorly engineered resin kits that are very rough and require a lot of extra parts and ingenuity to complete.
A couple of my club members who are very good modelers bought the Halliburton three tank tank car for drilling mud and have never finished them.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
Ladders??? WHAT ladders?!? I don't need no STEEN-KING ladders!
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I noticed on all the pictures Ed, Bear, and Mod posted, there are no ladders to the tank domes.
Did these become mandatory hardware at a later date? I do not have any tank car models that do not have ladders.
Those are really neat Kevin. Usually when you find freaky, out of the ordinary or 'Rare' rolling stock on eBay they want a pretty penny for it.
If not, ...I like them, order me five please.
TF
gmpullman lot 7514 045 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr
Thanks for sharing those photos, Ed! I have a couple of the Tangent 3-dome tank cars, which are very nice. The visibly separate compartments on the rigid wooden frame, however, really highlight their actual size. Very cool!
I know the 3-dome tank cars stayed in service for quite a while. I'd be curious how long the particular version you posted lasted. The spacing/gap between the compartments looks wider than the photo that Overmod posted.
Tom
Yeah, and it's appropriate for your time frame!!
gmpullmanNot lettered for Imperial Oil but there is this:
Thanks for the help and pictures guys!
I had never seen a multiple compartment tank car that had completely seperate tanks. The name of the company "Concept Models", also had me thinking it might be a fantasy item.
This thing is weird, and would be at home with the rest of my fleet.
The patent apparently refers to VanDyke's US748888A, August 30, 1904, which is itself an interesting thing in the history of tank cars. He previously designed what I think is the first tank car without center sill, US738259, September 8, 1903. Supposedly this "V-Car" even though MCB-approved did not go over well at all with railroads, despite his careful description that he understood the "enormous forces" involved in typical switchng and slack action, and hence we have the return to apparently substantial center sill construction (it is a tubular construction of two I-beams with top and bottom plates, wide enough to fit draft gear 'three springs across') in these "X-cars", with special tank clamping arrangements.
It appears part of the individual-tank construction may be to optimize filling with material of different temperatures; the tanks are secured at their middles (by riveting to the underframe, but with an internal plate calked across the inside of the riveted joint so that, even if the tank is torn loose, it will not leak) and expand outward 'both ways' from that securement.
There's going to be a story in the progressive support designs I see in some of these cars. Note that car 2014 has a perimeter frame with separate angled supports to longitudinal members riveted to the tanks. By the time of Ed's car 13504 the longitudinal members are continuous (even though the tanks are not) and the support is undivided the length of the car.
Dust collector, dirt collector — lost in the details:
Air_Brake_AB by Edmund, on Flickr
Might be a little different on a K brake setup.
I can make out a patent date of late August, 1904 on the Canadian car sill (see below; I found it). It did not take long in the Federal Register of Patents to produce the description and claims. Irritatingly, had I known tha patentee's name in advance the information would have been quickly forthcoming...
Three-compartment cars (for carrying multiple materials, notably different grades of gasoline) are well-known in their own right; here is a more familiar structure of IOX car (from the reference source the Bear provided):
I would suspect the multiple tanks reflect more a 'marketing value' visibly separating more and less 'valuable' hydrocarbons than an engineering solution for keeping different vapor pressures separated safely, or transporting just in one of the separate compartments. I'm pretty sure there are separate domed bulkheads inside those rings... which appear to be clamping bands...
I don't know what a 'dust collector' is. But I see there is an AAR spec for this car, although I can't resolve it, and that might lead to more specific information on construction details and evolution.
Not lettered for Imperial Oil but there is this:
Triple_Tank UTLX by Edmund, on Flickr
Pat'd. Aug 30, 1904; Blt. 3-15 A.C. & F. Milton, Penna.
lot 7514 045 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr
My plan, when I'm done with tier I, II and III projects is to gather some Tichy tank parts and kitbash a few cars like these
Good luck, Ed
SeeYou190Is there a prototype for this thing,
http://www.nakina.net/photos/iox/iox002035.jpg
http://www.nakina.net/private/iox.html
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I found this kit while on eBay.
Is there a prototype for this thing, and if so, what does anyone know about it?
Or, is it purely a fantasy creation?