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Canadian or Canadien?

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Posted by davidmurray on Monday, March 8, 2021 5:26 PM

Wife and I drove from Oshawa, quite close to Toronto, to Alaska in 2004 and 2007.

On the highway between Whitehorse and Dawson City they have signs telling you the last time each area you pass thru burned.  Some places you could see trees that had been fire killed one hundred years before that were still standing.

Took the top of the world highway from Tok Alaska to Dawson City in 2007.  Much of it had been burned in 2004, which was long enough for the fireweed to be blossoming for miles.

David Murray from Oshawa, Ontario Canada
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Posted by York1 on Monday, March 8, 2021 4:40 PM

The Milwaukee Road Warrior
Yikes.  This sounds terrifying.  Having flashbacks of watching the film Only the Brave....

Happily, we were able to get to Dawson City, and then on into Alaska.

Dawson City was the best part of our two week trip.  It is worth the effort to get there.

York1 John       

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Posted by The Milwaukee Road Warrior on Monday, March 8, 2021 3:49 PM

York1

 

 
Lastspikemike
In 2013 I drove back from Yellowknife right through the enormous forest fires raging at the time. They closed the highway after me. Fire right to the edge of the road in places. Nowhere to go but onwards, once we left Yellowknife there was no turning back and only one road onwards.

 

 

We had the same experience in 1995 on the road to Dawson City.  We were the last ones through, and the fires were along both sides of the road.

 

Yikes.  This sounds terrifying.  Having flashbacks of watching the film Only the Brave....

Andy

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Posted by York1 on Sunday, March 7, 2021 12:24 PM

Lastspikemike
In 2013 I drove back from Yellowknife right through the enormous forest fires raging at the time. They closed the highway after me. Fire right to the edge of the road in places. Nowhere to go but onwards, once we left Yellowknife there was no turning back and only one road onwards.

 

We had the same experience in 1995 on the road to Dawson City.  We were the last ones through, and the fires were along both sides of the road.

York1 John       

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Posted by snjroy on Sunday, March 7, 2021 12:07 PM

Brent, I took a few plane trips between Vancouver and Whitehorse as part of my contract work. The scenery is just outstanding!

Simon

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Posted by BATMAN on Sunday, March 7, 2021 11:43 AM

Growing up in B.C. surrounded by friends and family that worked in the resource industries, "up North" meant North of the B.C./Yukon border, while the far North was always North of the Arctic Circle.

It is over 4000km from Vancouver to the most Northerly point in Canada, I remember working flights both civilian 737s and military C-130 Hercules at Vancouver that were coming and going to/from the far North, those crews were spent when they got back from that trip. The aircraft were filthy dirty from the dirt runways. 

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by snjroy on Sunday, March 7, 2021 11:06 AM

Yup, a northern position is all relative, except of course if you live at the point refered to as the North Pole!  No one is North of Santa... Up here in Canada, we distinguish the Near North or sub-arctic (which relates to boreal, mostly conifer, forest), and the Far North (arctic and Tundra).  

Simon

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, March 7, 2021 10:33 AM

selector
We like beer.  Real beer. 

Elsinore? As sambuca is con mosca, con le sorcio?

54° 40' or Fight!

I was always fond of fast time freights, and how best to yard them on arrival.  As it were.

 

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Posted by selector on Sunday, March 7, 2021 9:46 AM

"Northern Ontario", for example, is what Hog Town folks, AKA the Big Smoke, (okay, Toronto), call anything north of Peterborough.  Those in Peterborough call Northern Ontario anything north of North Bay, or Thunder Bay.  For example, New Liskeard, Timmins, Larder Lake, Swastika, Cobalt, Kenora, Lake Nippising, that's all northern Ontario.  For people living up there, it's James Bay and Hudson Bay where it gets a little northerly.

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Posted by selector on Sunday, March 7, 2021 12:24 AM

The Frozen Chosen.

We like beer.  Real beer. Whistling

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Posted by PM Railfan on Saturday, March 6, 2021 4:02 PM

BATMAN
 
PM Railfan
i was educated in America.

 

So was I, North America, the Canadian part, West Coast, North Vancouver to be exact.LaughSmile, Wink & Grin

 

details, details..... Laugh Laugh, wait, dont they call that the "great white north"??? Laugh

 

-PMR

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Posted by snjroy on Friday, March 5, 2021 10:18 PM

Lastspikemike

Quebecois is indeed old pre revolutionary French. My daughters speak it. The one who lives in the UK works frequently with the French (in France) and they assure her that her command of the language is excellent but "quaint" on account of learning the Canadian version of French.  A bit like a modern Englishman conversing with a Shakespearean era Englishman perhaps. 

Les Canadiens de Montreal are commonly referred to as Les Habs...short for Les Habitants or "the peasants" .... out West they are referred to just as the Montreal Canadians, when we're feeling feisty. 

And just btw: Canadian is the Canadian spelling of Canadian, not the American spelling......

 

How can we know how the French spoke in the 18th century?... 

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Posted by BATMAN on Friday, March 5, 2021 5:18 PM

PM Railfan
i was educated in America.

So was I, North America, the Canadian part, West Coast, North Vancouver to be exact.LaughSmile, Wink & Grin

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by Backshop on Friday, March 5, 2021 5:01 PM

Lastspikemike

 

 
DSchmitt

Which side of the car has "CANADIAN" ?

Which side of the car has "CANADIEN" ?

 

 

 

De Hanglish would be to da right

et le Francais a la gauche

naturalement. 

Until le train reverser hand den de udder way roun 

 

Spoken like a true Canadian...

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Posted by DSchmitt on Friday, March 5, 2021 4:44 PM

Which side of the car has "CANADIAN" ?

Which side of the car has "CANADIEN" ?

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by PM Railfan on Friday, March 5, 2021 4:37 PM

I was tought "Canadien" is the French way, "Canadian" is the American english way. That was under the precept of learning the language and had nothing to do with Railroads, private companys, or laws. Who knows if thats true, i was educated in America.

Either way, a French speaking person is gonna know your a tourist. Especially when you pronounce "Pere Marquette" as "Pierre Marquette".

I dont collect many CN models, very interesting to know there are two name spellings on one model. Never noticed it before.

 

-PMR

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Posted by "JaBear" on Friday, March 5, 2021 3:58 PM

The Milwaukee Road Warrior
 Is this an English thing like THEATER, THEATRE?

Gidday Andy, theatre is “Queens English” as is centre, and metre. There are quite a few differences between “Queens English” and “American English”, but I think we can generally understand each other, though in my trade the use of the correct nomenclature is very important.
I had it from a French Canadian that Canadian French is actually “Old” French as spoken in 17th and 18th century France.
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

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Posted by John-NYBW on Friday, March 5, 2021 3:00 PM

Montreal's hockey team is the Canadiens for what that's worth. 

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Posted by cv_acr on Friday, March 5, 2021 12:13 PM

snjroy

The Canadian Official Languages Act does apply to the CN. 

https://www.clo-ocol.gc.ca/en/language_rights/act

That would explain both spellings. 

Simon

 

 

That doesn't really affect painting a name on one side of a boxcar as far as I can tell... it's about providing service to the public in either language. The link also indicates the first version of the act is from 1969, at least eight years *after* CN started this practice with their 1961 brand re-design...

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Posted by snjroy on Friday, March 5, 2021 11:56 AM

The Canadian Official Languages Act does apply to the CN. 

https://www.clo-ocol.gc.ca/en/language_rights/act

That would explain both spellings. 

Simon

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Posted by cv_acr on Friday, March 5, 2021 10:21 AM

Track fiddler

Interesting Stix

As I knew a little part of it, I never knew all of it or the reason why?  Now I do!

Other than that "reason" being totally made up as far as I know...

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Posted by Track fiddler on Friday, March 5, 2021 10:15 AM

Interesting Stix

As I knew a little part of it, I never knew all of it or the reason why?  Now I do!

Thanks StixYes  I always like to learn something everyday.

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by cv_acr on Friday, March 5, 2021 10:15 AM

wjstix

Canada has two official languages, English and French. All official documents like tax returns, government notices, etc. are required to be in both languages. Because Canadian National is (or at least was up until recently) owned by the Canadian governement, that included it's freight cars. Beginning around 1980 cars had the railroad name spelled out in English "CANADIAN NATIONAL" on one side and French "CANADIEN NATIONAL" on the other side. Canadian Pacific was/is a private company, so was not required to do that. 

 

First of all, it was around 1960, not 1980 (new logo was officially introduced in 1961).

It had nothing to do with government regulations as far as I know, but part of the idea within the redesign of the modern CN logo was that using only the letters "CN" and not "CNR" like the previous logo made it work in both languages. And cars had the English name applied to one side, and the French version on the other.

Not government requirement, just company policy/design decision with the new branding. Plus CN's headquarters were in Montreal, Quebec which might also influence that.

BTW, VIA Rail was and still is a "crown" corporation as well, and that's not exactly bilingual either.

 

Also BTW, slightly off topic, but you mentioned it... for tax time you indicate which language you want to use in your correspondence. These days I do it on the computer, but when I did my tax forms on paper, the forms were in English only. They're AVAILABLE in either official language, but you fill out an English or French version of the forms. Other government forms that aren't as complex might have a single version with both languages, but usually you just get either an English or French version of the document.

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, March 5, 2021 10:02 AM

Track fiddler
I think I remember hearing Canadien is the French version.  Perhaps transpired from Quebec.  I'm not 100% positive if that's true or the reasoning behind it, that both spellings are put on some cars

Canada has two official languages, English and French. All official documents like tax returns, government notices, etc. are required to be in both languages. Because Canadian National is (or at least was up until recently) owned by the Canadian governement, that included it's freight cars. Beginning around 1980 cars had the railroad name spelled out in English "CANADIAN NATIONAL" on one side and French "CANADIEN NATIONAL" on the other side. Canadian Pacific was/is a private company, so was not required to do that.

Stix
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Posted by Track fiddler on Friday, March 5, 2021 8:17 AM

MARTIN STATION
I hope you're putting gravy on those fries!

Yes, but of course! Dinner  Also with some melted trailer cheese and some chiliStick out tongue  the more the merrier as I always sayLaugh

I am planning to visit Martin Station Wilderness Road State Park in Ewing, Virginia one of these days on my bucket list.  When I ever get down there to Virginia, I would also like to visit the old abandoned mining town of Sewell, Mann's Creek Railroad.  A dream of mine,  I have a lot of interest in that oneYes

My Grandfather who I loved dearly was a Canadian.  The memories of him, I still do.  He was a Scotch Canadian so he spelled it Canadian ehSmile

 

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by MARTIN STATION on Friday, March 5, 2021 7:52 AM

Track fiddler

I've noticed that too.  I have a rolling stock Canadian car that has Canadian on one side and Canadien on the other somewhere in my stacks of cars. 

I think I remember hearing Canadien is the French version.  Perhaps transpired from Quebec.  I'm not 100% positive if that's true or the reasoning behind it, that both spellings are put on some cars but I like the Canadian spelling better, unless I'm eating french friesLaughWhistlingSmile

 

 

 

TF

 

I hope you're putting gravy on those fries!

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Posted by Backshop on Friday, March 5, 2021 7:15 AM

Track fiddler

I think I remember hearing Canadien is the French version.  Perhaps transpired from Quebec.  I'm not 100% positive if that's true or the reasoning behind it, that both spellings are put on some cars but I like the Canadian spelling better. 

TF

Correct.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Friday, March 5, 2021 7:01 AM

I've noticed that too.  I have a rolling stock Canadian car that has Canadian on one side and Canadien on the other somewhere in my stacks of cars. 

I think I remember hearing Canadien is the French version.  Perhaps transpired from Quebec.  I'm not 100% positive if that's true or the reasoning behind it, that both spellings are put on some cars but I like the Canadian spelling better, unless I'm eating french friesLaughWhistlingSmile

 

 

 

TF

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Canadian or Canadien?
Posted by The Milwaukee Road Warrior on Friday, March 5, 2021 6:54 AM

I've seen pictures of CN rolling stock with the word spelled both ways....?  Is this an English thing like THEATER, THEATRE?  Or did someone grab the wrong stencil?

Scroll a ways down to see two gray CN hoppers with both spellings:

http://railroadstrains.blogspot.com/2013_08_01_archive.html

 

Andy

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Milwaukee native modeling the Milwaukee Road in 1950's Milwaukee.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/196857529@N03/

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