Greetings,
I'm looking for replacement trucks for the tender of my brass 2-6-6-2. Do the ones in the following photo appear to be Bettendorf? (Click photo to enlarge)
The brass trucks that came with the 2-6-6-2 tender use a copper "clip" that's supposed to represent the leaf spring. It looks kinda funky with it open-ended and one of the clips doesn't hold particularly well and rear wheel set has a lot of side-to-side slop.
I'd like to replace it with an identical truck that has electrical pickup. Kadee 590 trucks look like they might work:
I'll try to post a photo of the brass trucks on the tender later today.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Maybe? Close enough? Is your brass model the NJ Custom Brass one? It looked to me like the tender was completely wrong when I looked at a picture of the NJCB model, but the model was #1943 - your picture is of #1343. I came across a front 3/4 shot of another 1900 series, but the tender trucks don't show - but that tender does match the NJCB one.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy,
Yes, it's the NJ Custom Brass NYC 2-6-6-2. Here's one of the trucks with the leaf-spring "clip" that holds the wheel sets inside each of the trucks (two per truck):
Some brass builders had all sorts of problems getting decent truck sideframes, for some reason. Others were beautifully made. I'm reminded of a late 70's/early 80's Hallmark diesel that was the subject of the MR Trade Topics column. I can;t draw, and I could draw better sideframes that looked more liek EMD sideframes than what came on that model. Even the old Athearn metal ones were better detailed - and this was on a brass loco selling for over $100.
The trucks in the prototype photo have far different shape from 'Bettendorf' in a number of respects. It looks to me as if the sideframes your model has are very close, certainly much closer than the Kadee design pictured.
I'd at least ponder the idea of making some sort of copy of the existing truck frames in plastic or resin, perhaps with inserts for 'conical bearings', and make or modify suitable bolster structure to hold them, if the brass sideframes are a problem.
Tom, I love Kadee, but the electrical pickup on their caboose trucks is not reliable enough for a locomotive.
For what you are trying to do, I would suggest Tichy #3051 "Bettendorf" caboose trucks. Use Intermountain metal wheels and wipers made from Tichy 0.032" bronze wire.
This combination should give a pretty close looking truck, good electrical pickup, and reliable operation.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Looks a lot like the Andrews trucks that are on the prototype of the terminal caboose I scratch built.
These were built from tenders.
Mike.
My You Tube
Tom, the Kadee truck that you showed should work just fine. Tangent also offers one that's similar in appearance.
It's not a big deal to add wipers to the tender trucks...
...nor is it difficult to add wipers to the loco's drivers...
Another option would to simply leave the tender trucks as-is, and add the wipers to the locomotive.
Wayne
Does Kadee make an 'electrical connection' version of the 509 truck? That's a more ancient design but closer to his prototype...
I would agree that Andrews trucks are more likely, far more common truck type for tenders, but the prototype photo is perhaps too altered to show the detail of the additional strap under the journal box if it's there. I've found all sorts of info on those locos, with darn near EVERY detail about the drivers, pilot, and trailing truck, capacities, power - you name it - everything but what type of tender trucks they were fitted with. Other steam locos, the online specs often mention the tender truck type, but leave off some of the more esoteric design elements.
If you add your own pickups, then you can get 8 wheel pickup from the tender, instead of just 4 on one side, or 2 on each side. Add pickups to the insulated side of the loco, and you have a really long power wheelbase that should be totally immune to dirty track, unless sections longer than a foot are covered in crud.
doctorwayneAnother option would to simply leave the tender trucks as-is, and add the wipers to the locomotive. Wayne
Wayne,
I would consider that but the one leaf-spring clip is flaky and I don't trust it to keep the truck wheel sets in place.
Thanks for the suggestions and ideas, everyone.
Is it too much trouble to rustle up a piece of phosphor bronze and make better 'leaf spring' packs, or make something out of plastic that performs the combination of location and spring/three-piece sideframe action?
Even providing elastomer blocks with shaped ends under the bolsters would do most of the 'job' necessary to make these trucks operable. What might be more interesting is what can be done to make them optimally free-running and equalized while retaining the prototypical appearance.
tstage...I would consider that but the one leaf-spring clip is flaky and I don't trust it to keep the truck wheel sets in place....
Well, if you can't correct the fault in the tender truck, that makes it an easy choice: simply pick the trucks which you feel are closest to those on the real ones, then add the wipers. They can be added to either the tender or the locomotive, or for even better current collection, to both.
At one time, Bachmann offered their tender trucks, with axle-wipers included, but for ages they've been shown as sold-out. (Scroll down to the bottom of the page to see what currently can't be had.)
I'm going to see if I can use the trucks that came with the tender. However, as an alternative, I found these brass leaf-spring Andrews trucks on the Amercian Scale Models website:
Does it seem like these would work in my situation? And it looks like the screws are for adding wipers for track pickup.
tstageDoes it seem like these would work in my situation?
Looks to me (from what fuzzy detail is there) that the originals have 'integral journal boxes', as here, but the little reinforcing strut from the sideframe over to the bottom of the journal box is absent. And nearly the whole sideframe area of the raised reinforcing rib needs to be cut not just down, but away, to match the dimensions of the voids in the prototype better.
Do not forget the very prominent securement chains, four per truck.
Looking again at the prototype loco photo, it fizzily appears that the horizontal pieces that are there, the photo is just too low resolution to see it clearly. Slight shadows on a couple of the tender wheels. I'd say those brass trucks are good as-is.
Adding wipers will require an insulated mounting for said wipers, because of the brass frame of the trucks. Unless you just do as on the original and insularew the trucks fromt he tender body, and put the insulated wheels of one truck on the right, and the other on the left. Then one truck picks up from the right rail and one picks up from the left. Or put the insulated wheels on the same side for both trucks, usign the truck frames for one side pikcup, and add just one set of wipers to each truck on the insulated wheel side to pick up from the opposite side. Either way the trucks have to be insulated from the tender frame, or else an insulated drawbar used to connect to the loco, since the loco frame will be hot on the side with the uninsulated drivers.
Looking again at the prototype loco photo, it fuzzily appears that the horizontal pieces are there, the photo is just too low resolution to see it clearly. Slight shadows on a couple of the tender wheels. I'd say those brass trucks are good as-is.
Those trucks have integrally-cast journal boxes and (in keeping with the somewhat-lighter construction of the frame) are mounted up in the end; there is not even room for a horizontal web, let alone a straight brace.
If he adopts the idea of using insulated wheels 'both ways' under the same tender he will have to use some caution to assure that one of them doesn't get turned around in storage or handling. The chains might be a good way to assure this in practice... but all eight of 'em either have to be crafted in insulating material or have their ends carefully insulated with what might be relatively weak material. I'm not sure wiper wires alone, if given enough play for good pivoting, will guarantee a truck can't get 'reversed'
Is there precedent to detent the trucks or use some other (insulated) arrangement to keep the trucks aligned right?
OvermodIs there precedent to detent the trucks or use some other (insulated) arrangement to keep the trucks aligned right?
It would be easy enough to drill the tender's floor to allow installation of some fairly thick styrene rod or tubing to prevent the trucks from accidently rotating 360º.
Another option would be to add wipers to the insulated wheels, as shown below...
...and let the wires which enter the tender, and carry current eventually to the motor, prevent over-rotation of the trucks. (The small pieces of circuit board material to which the wipers are soldered, are double-sided, and therefore soldered to the truck boslsters.)All wheels on the tender shown are "hot", and the connections to the loco are partially visible at left in the photo above.
It would be far fromt he first steam loco tender where you have to make sure the trucks aren't spund around 180 degrees. Even when the tender only picks up on one side, if one truck gets spun accidently, the tender itself is now a direct short.
Actual chains, or even just the wire, will work to keep things straight outside of excessive and deliberate force. I wouldn't worry too much about that. Better to have as big and comprehensive a pickup pattern as possible for reliability, with the slim chance of getting a wheelset backwards - it's not going to fry anything, unless the internal wire melts before the circuit breaker shuts off power.
tstage And it looks like the screws are for adding wipers for track pickup.
Tom, those screws are there to hold the side frames to the cross bolster.
Every brass tender truck I have seen are insulated one side only, and the cross bolster has continuity to one rail. The screws could be used for wheel wipers I suppose, but only to the rail that has continuity to the uninsulated wheel.
That is why I use plastic framed trucks on my tenders.
I just checked the three of my brass tenders I have easy access to.
None of the trucks will turn 180 degrees as manufactured. They hit the side sills, bolsters, drawbar, or coupler mount.
Tenders I have modified, similar to what Doctor Wayne posted, have wires through the floor, so they cannot turn out of polarity.