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Southern Railroad Sleeper "Knickerbocker"

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  • Member since
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  • From: Springboro, Ohio
  • 201 posts
Posted by ripvanwnkl on Sunday, January 17, 2021 7:39 AM

Dave Nelson, don't know about New York Central, but just found out that the Southerner, a Southern named passenger train, ran between New Orleans and New York City in joint venture with Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR).  Apparently PRR handled that train between DC and New York.  

Dave

USAF (Retired)

 

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, January 15, 2021 1:12 PM

I had thought for a moment the reference might be to the Knickerbocker Club -- but this car is a plan 3410 12-1 sleeper.  Ed can probably access the Pullman Project and get a list of Southern's Plan 3410s to see if there are any 'other' similarities -- Southern did have a 3410 "Litchfield".  On the other hand, this was after the Fairfax Harrison administration...

Apparently this car was painted silver in the early '40s, then dark green before getting the shadow-line scheme.  

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Posted by dknelson on Friday, January 15, 2021 11:58 AM

And at one time the Hotel Knickerbocker was the last word in style and luxury, which could explain why a passenger car would have the name Knickerbocker.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Thursday, January 14, 2021 5:56 PM

That's great modeling, so realistic !

"Knickerbocker" was a term popularized by author Washington Irving for the  descendents of the early Dutch settlers of the New York City region and Hudson Valley (TR and FDR were Knickerbockers)

"The term "Knickerbockers" traces its origin to the Dutch settlers who came to the New World - and especially to what is now New York - in the 1600s. Specifically, it refers to the style of pants the settlers wore...pants that rolled up just below the knee, which became known as "Knickerbockers", or "knickers".

In 1809, legendary author Washington Irving solidified the knickerbocker name in New York lore when he wrote the satiric A History of New York from the Beginning of the World to the End of the Dutch Dynasty under the pseudonym Diedrich Knickerbocker. Later known as Knickerbocker's History of New York, Irving's book introduced the word "knickerbocker" to signify a New Yorker who could trace his or her ancestry to the original Dutch settlers.

With the publication of Irving's book, the Dutch settler "Knickerbocker" character became synonymous with New York City. The city's most popular symbol of the late 19th and early 20th centuries was "Father Knickerbocker", complete with cotton wig, three-cornered hat, buckled shoes, and, of course, knickered pants.

 

sd0550-jacob-ruppert-knickerbocker-beer-refrigerator-fridge-magnet-americana-style-g5.jpg (327×480) (suredone.com)

 

At the same time, the term "Knickerbocker" became indelibly linked to anything and everything New York...from Jacob Ruppert's Knickerbocker Beer to the 1938 Broadway musical Knickerbocker Holiday (which starred Walter Huston and featured the haunting "September Song") to famed society gossip columnists Cholly Knickerbocker (the nom de plume used by Maury Paul and Igor Cassini) and Suzy Knickerbocker (Aileen Mehle)."

 

I have a model of a Rupprt's Knickerbocker Beer reefer. The Brewery was located in the Bronx, next to the CNJ freight station. Even though Jacob Ruppert owned the Yankees, his beer was the official beer of the Gians and was served at the Polo Grounds.

 

bronx round house terminal | “Where Rails Meet the Sea" by M… | Flickr

 

Gotta wonder how well Rule G was adhered to on a hot summer day....

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, January 11, 2021 6:21 AM

The only knickerbocker I've ever heard of is a desert my British wife makes.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by dknelson on Sunday, January 10, 2021 11:32 AM

Didn't the NY Central and Southern have a joint train or two?  Perhaps the Knickerbocker was intended for through train service to NY City?

Dave Nelson

 

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Posted by ripvanwnkl on Sunday, January 10, 2021 8:52 AM

To answer part of my own question, could the car have been a tribute to Leland A. Knickerbocker, the designer of probably the most iconic of all streamliner liveries, the Santa Fe War Bonnet?  He died in 1939 at the age of 46.  

 

Dave

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Posted by ripvanwnkl on Sunday, January 10, 2021 8:35 AM

Thanks, JaBear!  Exactly the proof I was looking for but couldn't find no matter how many times I "googled".  Do you have any info on photo like place, year, reason for NY Dutch name on Southern passenger car?  

Dave

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Posted by "JaBear" on Saturday, January 9, 2021 7:08 PM

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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  • From: Springboro, Ohio
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Southern Railroad Sleeper "Knickerbocker"
Posted by ripvanwnkl on Saturday, January 9, 2021 4:20 PM

There are HO and N scale models of subject heavyweight passenger car painted silver with dark stripes to look like a corrugated streamliner car.  Was there ever a prototype?  If yes, was it part of any named train consist?  Thanks.  

Dave

USAF (Retired)

 

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