Tie Plate Canting and General History

[Anonymous]

Since you've been so helpful in this thread, maybe you haven't seen my other tie plate related thread, this forum, where I asked the whys of different punched-hole sizes in a given tie plate. From drawings I've seen, one hole of the 3 or 4 punched in the plates is a shade larger than the others--I think I gave the actual sizes and locations in the other thread, if anyone is interested!

[M636C]

Bongo,

A quick look at the site you quote does show chaired rail. It's hardly surprising, given that a lot of the prototype track with chairs still exists in Britain. The London Underground "Victoria Line", built new in 1967, with automatically controlled trains, had chaired rail!

Prototype chairs were solid on the outside to hold gauge, but on the inner side a steel spring clip, or in earlier years a wooden wedge, held the rail in place. As you say, in model form, the chairs just slide onto the rail.

Peter

[Anonymous]

That's helpful, and your mention of 'chairs' is particularly timely. I was just over at the www.gaugeone.org site browsing about when I noticed in the photo gallery there, a track setup using tie plates that appear to slide onto the end of the rail--and having sort of a yoke or 'C' shape that the rail base slides into. I've not seen anything like it, but it sure seems like a cool idea--even if not prototypical for the US. Maybe these are the same as the 'chairs' you mention.

[M636C]

Bongo,

I've pulled out my Railway Engineering Cyclopedia for 1948, and there are a couple of interesting facts outlined therein.

The origin of tie plates is dated to 1874, when the current style of rail with a thin base was introduced. This caused problems with tie cutting so plain flat steel plates were introduced to reduce the problem. No dates are given after that but it is stated that the outer shoulder was introduced first, to reduce so called "throat cutting" of the outside spikes. Cant was introduced to incline the rail inward to obtain more uniform loading and wear on the rail, and to reduce the tendency to rail rollover. The AREA recommended cant is 1 in 40. There were no standards for tie plates until 1944, when these were introduced by the AREA as a a steel conservation measure, although there had been concern about the proliferation of designs since 1926.

I hope this is some help. You might find a similar "Cyclopedia" in a big public library.

If you have other specific questions, I'll try to answer them.

Peter

[M636C]

This is a question I hadn't ever considered, and since I'm in Australia, I can't neccessarily help much. One approach would be to look at early photos of trains on main lines and look for tie plates. Photos exist of the "Empire Stare Express" at speed when it made its speed record (about 1897?). If the NYC didn't have tie plates then, I'd guess nobody did.

I've seen ties cut at an angle to provide the cant (generally 1 in 20 or 1 in 40, I think) in the absence of canted plates.

There are old copies of AREA manuals and Simmons Boardman published a "Track and Structures Cyclopedia" (like the better known Locomotive Cyclopedia). I have one of each, and I'll see what they say, if anything.

My guess would be that plates have been around for a bit over 100 years. It might be worth recalling that in Britain, "double headed rail" supported in cast iron chairs was used from the early 1830s until the 1970s, and these "chairs" could be considered a predecessor of the tie plate. There is a stretch of very early chaired track remaining in a city in Australia, unused for many decades!

Peter

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bongo Boy

Thanks Bob. I've run up against the index of magazines several times on all kinds of topics, but I just don't get it. I find the info about the magazine issues, etc., but there seems to be no info at all about how to find the magazine itself It sort of seems like being told that something exciting exists, but not being told where to find it. What am I missing?

Bongo,
The Index of Magazines is just what its title implies. When you find an article in which you are interested, you have a couple of alternatives. If the article is in a periodical that is still published, you can go to that periodical's Web site and see if they offer back issues and/or a photocopy service. If they don't, another alternative is hunting at your LHS, a large public library's stacks or at used book and magazine stores. And, whether or not you are a member, you can always use the photocopy service at the NMRA's Kalmbach Memorial Library:
http://www.nmra.org/library/
Their fee is reasonable, member or not. I hope this helps.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Anonymous]

Thanks Bob. I've run up against the index of magazines several times on all kinds of topics, but I just don't get it. I find the info about the magazine issues, etc., but there seems to be no info at all about how to find the magazine itself It sort of seems like being told that something exciting exists, but not being told where to find it. What am I missing?

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bongo Boy

Please forgive me as I work through my current fascination with tie plates.

I wonder if anyone has run across some authoritative info on such things as:

a) about when did tie plate usage become routine in the US?
b) about when did single- and double-flanges get introduced?
c) about when did tie plate design include the rail canting feature?

The context here for me is limited to 'traditional' spike plates as opposed to other plates using clips, etc. I think I've done my Google searches on this and found nothing, so therefore I naturally feel I've exhausted all possible avenues of research. [:D]

Bongo,
One avenue of research you apparently didn't exhaust was the Index of Magazines. Here's the one article cited using "tie plate" as the search term:

Tie plates - railroad standards Mainline Modeler, May 2000, page 70 ( PLATE, SUPERDETAIL, TIE, TRACK, "WAITE, THORNTON", MM )

Also, have you researched a copy of the NMRA's reprint of the 1920's book "Railway Track and Maintenance," by E. E. Russell Tratman, with an introduction by Tony Steele ?
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Anonymous]

Please forgive me as I work through my current fascination with tie plates.

I wonder if anyone has run across some authoritative info on such things as:

a) about when did tie plate usage become routine in the US?
b) about when did single- and double-flanges get introduced?
c) about when did tie plate design include the rail canting feature?

The context here for me is limited to 'traditional' spike plates as opposed to other plates using clips, etc. I think I've done my Google searches on this and found nothing, so therefore I naturally feel I've exhausted all possible avenues of research. [:D]