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Yard Ballast

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WPA
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Yard Ballast
Posted by WPA on Wednesday, December 9, 2020 9:37 PM

I am building an N scale version of the Virginian layout, slightly modified, after a long time away from hobby. I am modeling Chessie System mid-1970s.  The MR version of the layout used cinders in the yard and mine run track and after my re-education in the hobby realized the use of cinders as ballast was probably steam era related.  I am using light gray mainline ballast based on Chessie mainline photos but can't find any good yard shots aside from oil soaked ballast (noted for engine track).  I have all the yard track set flat, no raised roadbed, used Woodlands foam sheet.  Any thoughts on yard ballast color. Thanks.  

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, December 9, 2020 10:29 PM

Yard ballast would be very small ballast 1/4 to 1/2 inch diameter because people have to walk on it.  "Main line" ballast would be much larger, in the 2-3" diameter range.  

Whatever the finest ballast you can get, use that for the yards.  Modern era could be the same color as the main, but much, much smaller particles.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, December 10, 2020 3:16 AM

Yeah, the few yards that I've had an opportunity to visit had mostly small gravel (similar to what's in my driveway) as it's tough going trying to walk on mainline ballast (and we shouldn't be on the tracks, anyway).  A couple had cinders, too, but not everywhere, and some were more dirt than gravel.

In N scale, you'll need something pretty fine if you want it to look believeable.  I bought some limestone screenings from a nearby lumberyard (it's the stuff used for interlocking paving bricks and walkways.  While I did need some for its intended purpose, I also ran a bunch of it through sieves which I use for scenic stuff on my layout, each one with progressively finer mesh.  The very last sieve wasn't really a true sieve, but rather a spatter guard meant to cover a frying pan to prevent things like bacon from spitting stuff all over the stovetop. 
It will screen out particles too big for your needs, but will allow the stuff appropriate for your yard ballast to pass through.

If you want to try this method, I suggest that you do it outdoors, as it creates a lot of dust (that's the stuff you want, but not all over your layout).

Here's some coarse stuff from the early screenings (the guy trying to walk on it is HO scale)...

....while this medium stuff is from later in the screening process...

...and the finer stuff shown here is much later in the process...

Not the best picture, but I used it in the area for trucks at this team track, mixed with some very fine powdered dirt...

Even in N scale, the fine particles will look homogeneous as fine gravel, rather than a blob of sloppy cement.

Wayne

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, December 10, 2020 4:44 AM

If you look back through some older threads, you will find some photos posted by Rob Spangler (aka wp8thsub) of his yard ballast. He uses limestone dust and sand to create a highly believable effect in his yards.

Rich

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by kasskaboose on Thursday, December 10, 2020 8:40 AM

I remember reading that the mainline ballast is more uniform while the yards is more random.  That also means inlcuding sporadic oil stains on the ties.  Variety is key!

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, December 10, 2020 10:00 AM

Tile grout. It comes in many colours or hit it with the airbrush.

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, December 10, 2020 10:35 AM

BATMAN
Tile grout.

When I was using the "epoxy" sanded grout (I don't think it is really epoxy) in the bathroom, I thought it would make a great material for modeling gravel roads.

It has a good texture, and when it is dry it is nearly indestructible,

This calls for an experiment! To the Batcave!

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Thursday, December 10, 2020 11:24 AM

SeeYou190

To the Batcave!

 

Here it isLaugh

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Posted by dehusman on Thursday, December 10, 2020 11:48 AM

Note the building in the foreground is "Crazy Town".

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

WPA
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Posted by WPA on Thursday, December 10, 2020 11:53 AM

Thanks for progressive pictures.  Now am thinking of looking at grout mix or hammering down some fine ballast.  Maybe even brown grout since did notice more dirt and oil than ballast. I have some cinders already put down at the tunnel entry before mountain building ahead of my ah ha moment but at least caught the period difference before cinders covered the whole yard and mine run spur. 

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, December 10, 2020 2:05 PM

Track fiddler

 

 
SeeYou190

To the Batcave!

 

 

 

Here it isLaugh

 

Those window washers missed a pane, where's my Batarang?

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Thursday, December 10, 2020 3:23 PM

The Soo Line yard in Ashland, WI was cinder ballast until they tore it out in the mid 1990s.  They occasionially threw a few shovels full of gravel here or there to shore up a spot where it was too low for anything to stay on the track, but until the very end the yard was 99% floating in a sea of grainy black goo.

 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by mvlandsw on Thursday, December 10, 2020 4:15 PM

I worked in the B&O/Chessie yards at Glenwood, Demmler, Connellsville, and New Castle from the mid 70's to 2015. Most of the surfaces were mainly a dirt, cinder, and ballast mix with a low percentage of ballast. The only areas fully covered with ballast were places where repairs or changes were made. 

Mark Vinski

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Posted by Track fiddler on Thursday, December 10, 2020 4:55 PM

Now that you mention it Brent, I did notice those Window Washers missed a smudge on the window on the 37th floor on the left side of the building.

This is unacceptable on the Batcave building.

I called Dr. Phil that has more money than God to have him call his pilot to fire up the Lear Jet and we both went down there with a roll of paper towels and some Windex.

I'm afraid of heights so we had to get the bum on the corner of the street to go up there for ten bucks and he got it all cleaned and shined up nice.

The Batarang is in the helicopter with Robin and I don't know where he's been lately but he says he has it so everything is all good here at this end.

 

 

 

LaughTF over and out

WPA
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Posted by WPA on Thursday, December 10, 2020 7:37 PM

Thanks. Still not sure, may just cinder yard up with splash of ballast here and there like you and Bayfield mentioned. I am going to shift gears on mine spur track though and go with darker ballast and not full out cinders.  Maybe I should poke around New Castle, right in my backyard.  

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, December 11, 2020 2:09 PM

WPA

Thanks. Still not sure, may just cinder yard up with splash of ballast here and there like you and Bayfield mentioned. I am going to shift gears on mine spur track though and go with darker ballast and not full out cinders.  Maybe I should poke around New Castle, right in my backyard.   

Consider sprinkling some pulverized limestone around the yard. Amazon sells a 5 pound bag for $19.99. Some of the nicest layouts on this forum use crushed or pulverized limestone or even limestone dust.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by PC101 on Friday, December 11, 2020 3:46 PM

If you are in N-scale and you can see individule stones, then it's too big for the yard and maybe even the mainline. Your best sorce is the likes of people like Mark V.'s (been there done that), above reply or photos in books, lots of books on your time frame, location and Railroad.

In photos (Chessis System 1977), I see grays, blacks and browns some being mixed together in yards. As in mixed together I see Grays for ballest on what I'd call the most traveled tracks with a mix of gray/brown on the yard tracks with a mix of black/gray scattered amoung those yard tracks and some yard tracks fully in black. Where employees walk, around buildings and where M of W vehicles are sitting the ground cover is light black and extra fine.    

WPA
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Posted by WPA on Friday, December 11, 2020 6:54 PM

May give away my pack rat habit but I have a bag of WS light gray from 1979 or so and it is a different shade as today's light gray so I guess I have some blend. Also have a bag of B&H cinders but the label is gone.  Does the old cinder mix have some red flakes? I went off on MR for contining to referencing Poly Scale and I go and pull out old ballast.  

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Posted by PC101 on Friday, December 11, 2020 10:00 PM

WPA

May give away my pack rat habit but I have a bag of WS light gray from 1979 or so and it is a different shade as today's light gray so I guess I have some blend. Also have a bag of B&H cinders but the label is gone.  Does the old cinder mix have some red flakes? I went off on MR for contining to referencing Poly Scale and I go and pull out old ballast.  

 

One of the bags of my WS ''Ballast'' is sticky, I think the bag is slowly breaking down. Opps, I let another pack rat out of the bag.

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Posted by mvlandsw on Saturday, December 12, 2020 12:30 AM

New Castle yard was extensively rebuilt to handle the increase in traffic from the Conrail split. It now has much more ballast than it did in the 70's.

WPA
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Posted by WPA on Saturday, December 12, 2020 8:15 AM

Yep, I saw a drone view of it on YouTube.  

WPA
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Posted by WPA on Monday, December 14, 2020 6:24 PM

I have a good pic of a Chessie yard to shot for.  Why are there large mounds of sand all over.  I know what the sand is for but i don't know what drives the random large piles.  Would think pulling a few cars in a yard is not a traction issue.  

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Posted by mvlandsw on Monday, December 14, 2020 9:09 PM

Which yard are you refering to?

Sand sometimes leaks out of covered hoppers.

It gets spilled around engine terminals when sanding engines.

Leaving the sanders on an engine run when stopped will make a pile.

Mark Vinski

WPA
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Posted by WPA on Tuesday, December 15, 2020 4:01 PM

Grafton, WV

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Posted by mvlandsw on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 12:39 AM

There is (or maybe was) a lot of fracing sand moving through there. Probably leaky covered hoppers leaving piles of sand. You can see the path that a leaking car took through the yard by following the trail left on the track. A small pile will be left everywhere the car stops.

Some times the hopper doors are left open and if there is some sand left in the cars it falls out when the cars are switched in the yard.

Mark

WPA
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Posted by WPA on Wednesday, December 16, 2020 8:15 AM

I am going for pre frac mid 1970s. Some good references for me at http://towns-and-nature.blogspot.com/2017/05/grafton-wv-b-coaling-facilities-and.html

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Posted by mvlandsw on Friday, December 18, 2020 8:54 PM

The piles of sand around the coaling tower are from the locomotive sanders. The sanders are usually tested during a locomotive inspection. Also if the air brakes go into emergency all the sanders on the locomotives involved will turn on. This can happen when buiding an engine consist if the air valves are not handled carefully.

WPA
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Posted by WPA on Thursday, December 24, 2020 9:49 PM

Interesting, thanks for info.

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Posted by cnjman721 on Sunday, December 27, 2020 1:52 PM

The current December issue of Model Railroad Hobbyist has a terrific article on creating your own ballast....

https://online.fliphtml5.com/buups/kcwx/index.html#p=73

Tags: Ballast
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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, December 27, 2020 11:56 PM

cnjman721

The current December issue of Model Railroad Hobbyist has a terrific article on creating your own ballast....

https://online.fliphtml5.com/buups/kcwx/index.html#p=73 

Ahh, Joe Fugate strikes again! Everything that Joe does is highly interesting to model railroaders. Great article, thanks for posting the link.

Rich

Alton Junction

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