Santa Fe AT&SF Award Winning Locomotive built by Ralph Marcus

[dknelson]

Tiny trainfans

Hi, I am a collecting beginner of USA trains. I got recently one custom detailed Santa Fe AT&SF 4-8-4 #3766 Award Winning Locomotive built by Ralph Marcus. I don’t know Ralph Marcus very much and I have searched his information from the Google, but I just got a little information (https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/saltlaketribune/obituary.aspx?n=ralph-shupe-barney&pid=195688965&fhid=19570). Everybody can tell me where to get more his  history and his? Who can provide the information about AT&SF 4-8-4 #3766 won the First Place at the SFRH&MS Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society Chicago National Convention in July 1989 for best steam locomotive? Thanks.

 

Well one big clue in your post is your mention of the Santa Fe historical society. so I went to an on-line index of the articles in the various versions of their magazine over the years and found that Ralph Marcus wrote several articles for them on steam locomotives, rolling stock, and MOW equipment.  Perhaps all from the modeling perspective, I do not know.  It stands to reason that someone active enough in a society of that sort to enter and win modeling contests is likely also a contributor and known to the society.  

https://sfrhms.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/webtitle-index.pdf

Then a google search for "Ralph Marcus" "Santa Fe" turned up all sorts of references of locomotives he built or detailed, including other ebays, and one that says he was from California.  Unfortunately it also turned up a 2008 Santa Fe Modeler's event in Quantico VA that includes in its agenda "A Tribute to Ralph Marcus."  

Combining  "Ralph Marcus" "Santa Fe" "California" and "obituary" in one google search came up with this confirmation that Ralph is deceased.  An interesting and accomplished man!

RALPH BARNEY MARCUS Born November 8, 1927 in Martinez and a longtime resident of South San Francisco, died peacefully at Seton Medical Center in Daly City on Friday, February 3, after a long illness. Beloved husband of Vera Marcus for 49 years, he was the son of the late Barney and Lucille Marcus of Aptos, CA. Also predeceasing him were his sisters, Velma and Winifred. Throughout his life, Ralph was a skilled craftsman and jet airplane mechanic. He worked for 37 years for American Airlines, spending most of his career in aircraft maintenance at SFO. During retirement, he was a member of the AA Vanguards. In his spare time, Ralph was an avid model railroader and active in the Pacific Coast Region of the National Model Railroad Association; he was the former editor of its newsletter, the Coast Dispatch, and won numerous awards for his HO scale models of Santa Fe engines and rolling stock. Ralph also enjoyed gardening, especially tending to roses, which was also a passion of his father's. During World War II and the Korean Conflict, Ralph served as a U.S. Navy Seabee. He is survived by wife, Vera, of South San Francisco; son, Kim and daughter-in-law, Wendy Marcus of Forest Hills, Queens, New York; nephew, Glen Sykes of Clayton, CA, and numerous members of the Nassie family of California and New Mexico. A memorial service will be held at 1 p.m. this Saturday, February 11, at St. Elizabeth's Episcopal Church, 280 Country Club Dr., South San Francisco.

Published in San Mateo County Times from Feb. 8 to Feb. 10, 2006.

Dave Nelson

 

[Tiny trainfans]

Hi everybody, I appreciate to you for your lot of responses. Although I don't know about the AT&SF 4-8-4 very much, I feel I had learned a lot through your discussion. Here I searched the AT&SF 4-8-4 information through Google and I found many different original types and their photos of AT&SF 4-8-4 in Key Model Imports official website (http://www.keymodels.net/id23.html).

[BigJim]

Looks like a lot of you "learn something new every day"! Ain't education fun!

[Tiny trainfans]

Hi BigDaddy, I appreciate to you for your kind and useful information, and I hope Howard Zane can see my question and provide me about Ralph Marcus. Thanks.

[doctorwayne]

Ed, your resources regarding almost anything continue to amaze me.

I can't imagine modelling the detail in that photo,and still being able to get any room for that trailing truck to make it around a curve, no matter how wide the curve might be.

Wayne

[gmpullman]

I finally found a decent shot showing where the cold water pump is hidden!

atsf_3759_crop by Edmund, on Flickr

Regards, Ed

[doctorwayne]

mvlandsw

The model looks pretty accurate.

I have to agree:  it looks equally as odd as the real one, although that bell pull-cord is distracting on the model.

Wayne

[doctorwayne]

gmpullman

This is the Worthington SA pump that I thought I could see behind the shield on the pilot...

Yup, that's the hot water pump.  I added one (a Cal-Scale casting) to this Bachmann USRA Light Mountain (under the running board and above the valve gear hanger...there's a flaw in the casting that looks like a dent - I should have filled it)...

 

gmpullman

Lord knows where the cold water pump is?

Here's the cold water pump on mine (right below the leading edge of the firebox), and based on a photo of a real locomotive thus equipped...

Wayne

[mvlandsw]

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org./atsf/atsf-s3759f01.jpg

The model looks pretty accurate.

Mark Vinski

 

[gmpullman]

There are some oddities on there for sure.

This is the Worthington SA pump that I thought I could see behind the shield on the pilot:

Worthington_HW-pump by Edmund, on Flickr

Lord knows where the cold water pump is? 

Worthington_turbopump by Edmund, on Flickr

Sure is interesting to try to get into the minds of the designers and attempt to understand what their goals and aims were. Back then you just didn't buy a locomotive out of a catalog. Every Superintendant of Motive Power had his reasons for designing and specifying everything from knuckle-to-knuckle.

Cheers, Ed

[doctorwayne]

gmpullman

OK, NOW I see it (wasn't even looking there!) yes, that space is usually taken up by the stoker engine. There's a second air pump behind the shield ahead of the left cylinder and on the other side of the pilot, the Worthington feed pump.

I dunno, Ed, but I think it's maybe a Franken-Loco.  The Worthington system uses two pumps, one for the cold water from the tender, and another for forcing the heated water into the boiler.  In most cases, the cold water pump was on the fireman's side, under the cab, and usually lower than the bottom of the tender.  In many installations, the hot water pump was also on the fireman's side of the loco, usually just aft of the valve gear, although I have seen ones on the pilot deck, too.

I guess pretty-well any railroad had its own peculiarities, but these seem almost contrived, at least to my eyes.

Wayne

[gmpullman]

doctorwayne

but that's the first time I've seen a cross-compound air pump underneath the cab.

OK, NOW I see it (wasn't even looking there!) yes, that space is usually taken up by the stoker engine. There's a second air pump behind the shield ahead of the left cylinder and on the other side of the pilot, the Worthington feed pump.

mbinsewi

I'm far from a steam guy, but did they actually do stacks like that?

 

https://sfrhms.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/stack-extenders.pdf

I seem to recall the UP using another type that colapsed like telescoping shells.

More oddities here, including some with ductwork all the way back over the cab!

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/chimney/chimney.htm

 

Regards, Ed

 

[doctorwayne]

gmpullman

Admittedly, the photos are pretty dark but I'm not quite seeing the Westinghouse Cross-compound "water pump" ??

Maybe it's not a stand-in for the water pump, but that's the first time I've seen a cross-compound air pump underneath the cab.  I've seen them above/ below/and blocking the running boards on both the fireman's side- and the engineer's-side of the boiler, mounted on the smokebox front, or on the deck of the pilot.

I have seen that style of smoke deflector, but seem to recall it as being for use in particular locales...perhaps unlined tunnels or where the track passes under certain bridges. IIRC, it's air-activated, so used only when necessary.

Wayne

[gmpullman]

doctorwayne

such as the cross compound air pump, apparently doing duty as a water pump. 

Admittedly, the photos are pretty dark but I'm not quite seeing the Westinghouse Cross-compound "water pump" ??

The actual 3759 does have a bell cord but, of course, it is much finer than reproduced on the model.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kingman_Santa_Fe.jpg#/media/File:Kingman_Santa_Fe.jpg

It shows up better on this photo of the 3751:

 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ATSF_3751_19920000_IL_Streator.jpg

 

regards, Ed

[mbinsewi]

doctorwayne

I think somebody's spoofin' somebody.

I'm far from a steam guy, but did they actually do stacks like that?  Pointed back at the cab?  

Mike.

[doctorwayne]

There seems to be some unusual detailing on that locomotive, such as the cross compound air pump, apparently doing duty as a water pump. 

The cord for the front mounted bell is another oddity on what appears to already include an air-ringer.  Besides that, the amount of slack in the cord would require the operator to coil several feet of it on the cab floor before it would be taut enough to actually ring the bell.

I think somebody's spoofin' somebody.

Wayne

[maxman]

See item specific comments at bottom of following ebay auction link:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Key-Imports-brass-ATSF-Santa-Fe-custom-prototype-built-4-8-4-3759-Ralph-Marcus/143603889630?hash=item216f7575de:g:tpMAAOSwqSheuzgz

 

[BigDaddy]

to the forum.   Your initial posts are moderated and therefore delayed.

The link you posted is for some other poor departed soul, not Ralph Marcus.  A google search comes up with several past auctions on ebay as well as a link to a Train Order Office designed by him in Jan 94 MR.

Howard Zane is one of our forum members and very active in brass in that time frame.  If he draws a blank, you might contact Brasstrains.com.

[Tiny trainfans]

Hi, I am a collecting beginner of USA trains. I got recently one custom detailed Santa Fe AT&SF 4-8-4 #3766 Award Winning Locomotive built by Ralph Marcus. I don’t know Ralph Marcus very much and I have searched his information from the Google, but I just got a little information (https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/saltlaketribune/obituary.aspx?n=ralph-shupe-barney&pid=195688965&fhid=19570). Everybody can tell me where to get more his  history and his? Who can provide the information about AT&SF 4-8-4 #3766 won the First Place at the SFRH&MS Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society Chicago National Convention in July 1989 for best steam locomotive? Thanks.