I am trying to find a few HO scale, black and inconspicuous tank cars suitable for vegetable oil for a small industry on my layout;the era would be 1980-1990. All the really modern tank cars are pretty long, am looking for something 55 ft or less. It seems to be easy to mistake one for edible liquids when it is really for inedible chemicals.
Could you use the 17,600 gal Trinity Tank Cars? They're primarily corn syrup tank cars, or maybe use the 19,600 gallon tank car? Time periods for both seem to be right for your era. Not an expert but probably close to what you can use?
Neal
Presumably your industry is smaller than the operation described here:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/13/t/111139.aspx
While a couple of companies have made 'compatible' cars in the 23K gallon range, I see much larger insulated-and-coiled cars being marketed -- and they might have smaller versions catalogued, with appropriate pictures and specs:
https://www.gbrx.com/manufacturing/north-america-rail/tank-cars/293k-vegetable-oil-tank-car/
The Atlas ACF 23,500 gallon and GATX 20700 gallon and Walthers UTLX 23000 gallon tanks are all appropriate 1970s general-service tank cars.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Overmod While a couple of companies have made 'compatible' cars in the 23K gallon range, I see much larger insulated-and-coiled cars being marketed -- and they might have smaller versions catalogued, with appropriate pictures and specs: https://www.gbrx.com/manufacturing/north-america-rail/tank-cars/293k-vegetable-oil-tank-car/
Well yes, tank car sizes have increased but he is targeting an era from 30 years ago where 20K-25K gallons was the sort of standard general service size.
cv_acr The Atlas ACF 23,500 gallon and GATX 20700 gallon and Walthers UTLX 23000 gallon tanks are all appropriate 1970s general-service tank cars.
That's what I use.
Also for petroleum, liquid fertilizer, as well as vegetable oil. Of course, look for appropriate roadnames. Wouldn't want to spot a Chevron tank car at your vegetable oil industry, if that level of detail matters.
- Douglas
I research the tank cars listed (Atlas ACF 23,500 gallon, the GATX 20,700 gallon and the Walthers UTLX 23,000 gallon) and could only find one of them on Amazon which was the GATX 20,700 gallon. I was just looking for one or two anyway. Thanks to all who gave advice.
nscsx I am trying to find a few HO scale, black and inconspicuous tank cars suitable for vegetable oil for a small industry on my layout;the era would be 1980-1990. All the really modern tank cars are pretty long, am looking for something 55 ft or less. It seems to be easy to mistake one for edible liquids when it is really for inedible chemicals.
I bought a dozen Athearn Roundhouse Shippers Car Line (SHPX) tank cars. These are 40' single dome black tank cars with a 1950s build date. They look great and run smoothly. I picked the SHPX cars since they can be used with any road name. These cars are readily available in HO scale. The frame length is 5.75".
Rich
Alton Junction
Are there any actual mechnanical or design differences between a tank car used for chemical or petroleum service and one used for food products?
DoughlessWouldn't want to spot a Chevron tank car at your vegetable oil industry, if that level of detail matters.
MJ4562 Are there any actual mechnanical or design differences between a tank car used for chemical or petroleum service and one used for food products?
Depends on the product a little, but short answer is no, vegetable oil and petroleum oil and tallow (animal fats) are shipped in the same type of car.
Tank cars are specialized, but there are "general service" designs.
Beyond a basic tank shell, cars can vary as follows:
Size
Tank car sizes can vary based on what they're designed for - some liquids are denser/heavier than others so cars can be larger or smaller. In the 1970s-80s a "general service" design was about 20-25K gallons. Today cars average about 30K gallons. Commodities like gasoline, diesel, crude oil, ethanol, tallow, vegetable oils, and several other types of chemicals all ship in this type of car. (But obviously not at the same time. Once loaded with any particular commodity a car remains in that service unless it's completely cleaned out at a maintenance facility. Additionally however certain commodities might required special interior linings to avoid contamination or reaction.)
Other commodities like corn syrup, clay slurrys, various acids and caustic chemicals are heavier and shipped in smaller tanks in the 16-17K size range. Sulphuric acid is heavier and shipped in cars about 13-14K gallons. Acid service cars have specialized fittings and glass or rubber interior linings so the acid doesn't eat the tank body. A lot of corn syrup cars have covers over the tank fittings.
Tank Insulation
Some tanks are just plain tanks where you actually see the tank body. Others are wrapped with several inches of fiberglass insulation and an outer steel jacket, so the outside surface you see isn't actually the body of the tank but just the insulation jacket. This helps to keep some loads with high water content from freezing in the tank, or keep in heat on hot loads like asphalt or molten sulphur. Rapido's new tank is a non-insulated Procor tank; pretty much all of Walthers tanks are insulated Union Tank Car designs, and most of Atlas's tanks are also insulated cars.
Heating Coils
Some thick commodities may require heating to help them flow better when unloading. Stuff like asphalt, viscous oils, molten sulphur, corn syrup, etc. Cars that may be used in this type of service have coils of piping either inside the tank, or applied to the outside of the tank but under the insulation, through which steam will be piped to heat up the car's contents. This detail can be hard to see but usually the steam connection pipes will be right beside the bottom discharge valve(s) through which the product is unloaded.
Gas Tanks
Not all tanks are designed for carrying liquids. There are a lot of tanks for carrying compressed/liquified gasses like propane (liquified petroleum gas or LPG), anhydrous ammonia (AA), chlorine, sulphur dioxides, etc. These have no bottom fittings and usually a large cover over the top fittings. The Athearn and Walthers 33K cars are typical of cars in LPG and/or AA service. Atlas has an ACF 17K gas car typical of chlorine cars, a much heavier gas.
Vegetable oil will usually be shipped in an insulated general-service type tank. Because veg. oil is not hazardous, the tanks may have little or no markings to the commodity (although I have seen photos of tanks specifically marked for vegetable oil, or "not for flammable liquids", or if it's marked with the logos of an agricultural or food company like ADM or Cargill it's a good chance). While mentioned above the exact same *designs* can be used for oils and chemicals, a particular car is usually leased to the shipper and semi-permantly assigned to one single commodity. Just be sure to get cars with agri-business or food products logos, or generic lease cars, and not ones marked with chemical or oil company logos or reporting marks (and also not any marked for edible tallow (animal based oils) either, which are also the same type of tank cars).
richhotrain a year ago when I wanted a string of shorter black tank cars for my new layout. I cannot tell a chemical tank car from an edible liquid tank car, but let me offer this suggestion. I bought a dozen Athearn Roundhouse Shippers Car Line (SHPX) tank cars. These are 40' single dome black tank cars with a 1950s build date. They look great and run smoothly. I picked the SHPX cars since they can be used with any road name. These cars are readily available in HO scale. The frame length is 5.75". Rich
a year ago when I wanted a string of shorter black tank cars for my new layout. I cannot tell a chemical tank car from an edible liquid tank car, but let me offer this suggestion.
FWIW - if it's the one with the "tall, thin" dome and platform with handrails on top, that's based on a compressed gas car which was used for chlorine, LPG, anhydrous ammonia (before larger cars were introduced in the 1960s for LPH and AA).
The other single dome (with the low, fat dome and no platform/handrails on top) and 3 dome (riveted body) roundhouse cars are typical of fairly generic designs from the first half of the 20th century; before tank sizes and designs were a bit more specialized as they are now. (Although they might have still installed interior features like steam coils or glass/rubber linings for corrosive products.)
MJ4562 Are there any actual mechnanical or design differences between a tank car used for chemical or petroleum service and one used for food products? Doughless Wouldn't want to spot a Chevron tank car at your vegetable oil industry, if that level of detail matters.
Doughless Wouldn't want to spot a Chevron tank car at your vegetable oil industry, if that level of detail matters.
Pretty good info is on the archive.atlasrr.com site that provides prototypical history to their rolling stock products.
Their 20,700; 23,500; and 25,500 tank cars have each been produced for a variety of uses, These are the non specialized general service products. Their roadnames reflect the various products.
But I have learned that a good rule of thumb is that the smaller 20,700 could be used for fertilizer; the 23,500 predominately used for asphalt/oil transport; and the 25,500 for vegetable oil and ethanol.
Of course, the 33,000 whale belly is for Liquified Petroleum Gas.
nscsxIt seems to be easy to mistake one for edible liquids when it is really for inedible chemicals.
Hello NSCSX
I am no expert. But it seems to me that modern tank cars for chemicals have a yellow square on the side, displaying emergency contacts. So if you are looking at a "plain black" tank car, check for that. Can anyone else confirm if this is true?
Most likely, a tank car with a food company name would be appropriate. Examples --CHS, ADM, AGP. However, keep in mind most corn syrup cars are smaller due to the weight/density of the product. Also, sometimes the tank cars are lettered for their product in small print to the right. Examples: corn syrup only; asphalt only; etc.
Hopes this helps.
Hillyard I am no expert. But it seems to me that modern tank cars for chemicals have a yellow square on the side, displaying emergency contacts. So if you are looking at a "plain black" tank car, check for that. Can anyone else confirm if this is true?
I'm not sure when they started adding that, but yes, that phone number on a yellow block is for emergencies invovled chemical spills/releases. A non hazardous car wouldn't likely have that.
HillyardI am no expert. But it seems to me that modern tank cars for chemicals have a yellow square on the side, displaying emergency contacts. So if you are looking at a "plain black" tank car, check for that. Can anyone else confirm if this is true?
I agree with Chris. I had forgotten about that warning. It would be a pretty good rule of thumb to help identify cars that are plain black.
My guess is those started appearing after 1990. I never noticed them until recently.
Hello All,
Have you considered a 30-foot "beer can shorty" tanker car?
For some reason these are readily available in N scale but scarce in HO.
Most of the more inexpensive ones I have seen on eBay are in kit form. These would be easily repainted. Decals from larger vegetable oil tankers could be modified to fit.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
jjdamnit Have you considered a 30-foot "beer can shorty" tanker car?
These little cars would have been used more for heavier things like corn syrup. Vegetable oil is comparatively light and uses similar general-service cars that are used for gasoline, diesel, oils, etc.
The "yellow box" with the phone number (800-424-9300) is the Chemtrec label which is applied to tankcars that carry hazardous materials. Chemtrec is a 24/7/365 operation that the chemical industry began in 1971 as a call center for shippers of hazardous chemicals, in case of emergency situations involving their products. Decals for these labels are available, at least in HO, from www.highballgraphics.com and, they are applied to any car carrying hazmat, regardless of car color or capacity.
Please be aware that just because a model manufacturer labels their product as a "chemical", "acid", "corn syrup" or whatever car, that type of car may be used for dozens of different ladings with no apparent external differences. Usually, the major differences in tank cars are internal, such as lining, heater coils, whether or not the car is insulated, the material used in tank construction and so on. Prototype tank cars are classified by tha Association of American Railroads by a somewhat cumbersome system that in 1990 covered 63 major classes of tank cars, with many variations within a given class.
For modelers wanting to know more about prototype tankcars, I recommend the following resources: "Model Railroading Magazine, March 1989, Freight Cars of the Sixties", "Model Railroading Magazine, February 1995, Freight Carology", "Railmodel Journal, July 1989, Modeling Today's Tank Cars-The Nine Most Common Cars of the Eighties", "Model Railroader Magazine", February 1990, Modern General Service Tank Cars", and "Railroad Model Craftsman Magazine, June 1983, About Tank Cars".
Many Model Railroading and Railmodel Journal magazines are available at www.trainlife.com while the Model Railroad should be available from Kalmbach. Maybe someday RMC will put their back issues on a disc. Suggestion: When you see an article you are interested in, and will want to refer to at some time in the future, make a photocopy and keep it in a loose leaf binder. It is much easier than rummaging through possibly hundreds of magazines!
Athearn has another run of their 8000 gallon "beer can" tank cars scheduled for delivery sometime in 2021. These cars were used to serve customers in the food industry who didn't have the capacity to handle or need the larger capacity cars, as well as customers in the chemical trade. Also, a cursory look at "Tank Car Color Guide: Vol. 2, Stub Sill Cars" by Morning Sun Books reveals that most cars that are not in hazmat service, do not have the brackets for displaying such placards. Another small detail.
It should also be noted that many railroads restricted the placement of these short cars in a train. They must not be coupled to cars measuring longer than 60 feet between coupler pulling faces and when empty, they must be entrained within the rear 20 cars of the train. Another small detail, from a Southern Pacific employee's timetable.
Ironic you just brought that up NHTX as I was just getting ready to post.
I have almost two 12-packs of these beer can tank cars in my roster. Here's the one that was near the top of the stack.
I kind of have a thing for these cars just like I do for ore cars. Just something about it when there's a big line of them. They look really neat stacked together
TF
cv_acrThese little cars would have been used more for heavier things like corn syrup. Vegetable oil is comparatively light and uses similar general-service cars that are used for gasoline, diesel, oils, etc.
NHTXThese cars were used to serve customers in the food industry who didn't have the capacity to handle or need the larger capacity cars, as well as customers in the chemical trade.
As has always been said, "There is a prototype for everything."
Thank you.
NHTX Many Model Railroading and Railmodel Journal magazines are available at www.trainlife.com