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Two-dome or not two-dome?: That is the question

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Two-dome or not two-dome?: That is the question
Posted by tstage on Saturday, August 15, 2020 6:54 PM

I was poking around on eBay earlier today and saw a brass two-compartment tank car for sale.  While I've seen photos of three-compartment tank cars and have 2 of the Tangent 6K gal versions, that's the first two-compartment I remember seeing. 

Q: Would these have been as common or less common than their triple-compartment cousins?

MR did a nice review of the Southern Car & Foundry two-compartment tank car urethane kit back in Dec '09.  However, there don't seem to be any available from either eBay or from the manufacturer's website.  I enjoy unusual models so that would make a nice kit to obtain and assemble - i.e. should I locate one online or at a train show - whenever those get going again.

Tom

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Posted by RR_Mel on Saturday, August 15, 2020 8:27 PM

Sounds like a neat kitbash project Tom.

Mel


 
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, August 15, 2020 8:41 PM

I have a Sunset brass model of an 8,000 gallon two dome tank car.

Overland imported a very interesting model of a 4,000 gallon two dome tank car. I do not have one of these, but I would like to.

I believe two dome tank cars were a bit of a rarity. 

I would really like to know what was hauled in the 4,000 gallon two dome tank car.

This is the 4,000 gallon tank car:

I would also like to have this model. It is a 10,000 gallon insulated two dome tank car built in 1930.

Side note: Not all three dome tank cars had three compartments. A very small specialized few of them were intended to haul commodities with a high expansion rate, and the extra two domes provided space for expansion.

There was an article about this where they pointed out that the O.R.E.R. showed a single compartment tank car, but prototype photographs of the car had three domes. I am certain these were quite the oddity.

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, August 15, 2020 8:44 PM

RR_Mel

Sounds like a neat kitbash project Tom.

Mel

Thanks, Mel.  That's a good idea.

Tom

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, August 15, 2020 8:50 PM

SeeYou190
Overland imported a very interesting model of a 4,000 gallon two dome tank car. I do not have one of these, but I would like to.

Kevin,

It was the OMI 8K gal that I saw on eBay earlier that caused me to post the question. 

And I figured that it might be a rarity because I've only found one prototype photo of a 2-compartment tank car so far on the internet.

Tom

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, August 15, 2020 8:57 PM

tstage
It was the OMI 8K gal that I saw on eBay earlier that caused me to post the question.

I just went to eBay and checked it out. That is a nifty model. I have not seen that one before.

$200.00 is a bit out of my price range for rolling stock.

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, August 15, 2020 9:08 PM

Odder yet is this two dome with the second dome offset:

 Tank_car_2dome by Edmund, on Flickr

Tichy makes a nicely detailed dome in styrene that would lend itself to kitbashing nicely.

 57001 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr

The rivet lines clearly delineate the internal bulkheads.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Saturday, August 15, 2020 10:13 PM
Gidday Tom, in my internet research as to how prototypical 2 dome cars were, I came up with very little information, leading me to think that they were the exception rather than the rule.
Here’s the two prototype photos I managed to find…
 
2 dome by Bear, on Flickr
GATX 1638 by Bear, on Flickr
 
Having discovered there actually were such things and having come across an article by Brad Smith in the September 1977 Model Railroader on kit bashing a two dome tank car from an Athearn 3 dome, I decided to give it a go!!
 
And at the risk of hogging your thread….
 
KB1 by Bear, on Flickr
KB2 by Bear, on Flickr
KB3 by Bear, on Flickr
IMG_0499 by Bear, on Flickr
IMG_0498 by Bear, on Flickr
 
…I hope this was of assistance.
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

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Posted by mvlandsw on Saturday, August 15, 2020 10:22 PM

SeeYou190

I have a Sunset brass model of an 8,000 gallon two dome tank car.

Overland imported a very interesting model of a 4,000 gallon two dome tank car. I do not have one of these, but I would like to.

I believe two dome tank cars were a bit of a rarity. 

I would really like to know what was hauled in the 4,000 gallon two dome tank car.

This is the 4,000 gallon tank car:

I would also like to have this model. It is a 10,000 gallon insulated two dome tank car built in 1930.

Side note: Not all three dome tank cars had three compartments. A very small specialized few of them were intended to haul commodities with a high expansion rate, and the extra two domes provided space for expansion.

There was an article about this where they pointed out that the O.R.E.R. showed a single compartment tank car, but prototype photographs of the car had three domes. I am certain these were quite the oddity.

-Kevin

 

RMC had plans and some information on the NATX 4000 gallon car in the April 1989 issue.  It was one of a kind, leased to Pennzoil, probably for carrying lube oil.

Mark Vinski

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, August 15, 2020 10:58 PM

Here’s the two prototype photos I managed to find… 2 dome by Bear...

That's the same photo that I found, Bear.  Thanks for the other one. Big Smile

And your Athearn kitbash turned out very well.  It's amazing how squadron putty, metal grabs & ladders, and a lick of paint can spruce up an Athearn BB. Yes

Tom

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, August 15, 2020 11:19 PM

gmpullman
Odder yet is this two dome with the second dome offset:

That is indeed an odd one, Ed.  And it appears that the slightly shorter dome is outfitted with some sorta ventiliation spout protruding off to the right.

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Posted by BATMAN on Saturday, August 15, 2020 11:31 PM

tstage

 

 
gmpullman
Odder yet is this two dome with the second dome offset:

 

That is indeed an odd one, Ed.  And it appears that the slightly shorter dome is outfitted with some sorta ventiliation spout protruding off to the right.

 

If memory serves, we discussed this car in the long lost thread "Waldorf And Statlers Photo Of The Day" and I think the special venting was for logging RRs that had very steep grades. I stand to be corrected.

Brent

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Posted by "JaBear" on Saturday, August 15, 2020 11:37 PM

BATMAN
If memory serves, we discussed this car in the long lost thread "Waldorf And Statlers Photo Of The Day" and I think the special venting was for logging RRs that had very steep grades

I think that your memory serves you well Batman, though I wouldn't necessarily trust the Bears!!!Stick out tongue

Thanks for your kind remarks, Tom, that kit bash was fun. (??)Confused

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, August 15, 2020 11:55 PM

In Ted Culotta's Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual - Volume Two:  Tank Cars, there is a wide variety of single-dome tank cars shown, including some under construction. 
There are several photos of three-dome tank cars, but only a few of two-dome cars, with the caption under one photo of a 4,000 gallon 2-dome car noting that there was not a great demand for the two-dome type.

The book also shows a couple of six-dome insulated cars, made specifically for carrying wine.  The cars are quite long compared to the others, but carried only 1100 gallons in each of their six compartments.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, August 16, 2020 1:09 AM

mvlandsw
RMC had plans and some information on the NATX 4000 gallon car in the April 1989 issue.  It was one of a kind, leased to Pennzoil, probably for carrying lube oil.

Oh, that kind of makes me sad.

I was hoping since it was only 4,000 gallons it was designed to carry a liquid with a very high specific gravity, so it still weighed 100,000 pounds.

If I ever get one, I am going to make the data reflect that.

What is the specific gravity of GERN High Density Liquiflux? That might be the load.

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Posted by NHTX on Sunday, August 16, 2020 2:17 AM

     The black 4000 gallon, two compartment tank car imported by Overland Models looks like a model of North American Car Co. (NATX) 18902, which was built in 1960.  It was equipped with heater coils and leased to the Pennzoil Co, probably for the transport of different grades of lube oil.  It was removed from service in 1983 or 4 and sold to the Tioga Central of New York's Southern Tier.

    An article with photographs and HO scale drawings by Chuck Yungkurth appeared in the April 1989 RMC.  Most of these unusual tank cars were built as one, or two car orders.  It was Lionel's two compartment O gauge Sunoco tanker that hastened my departure from American Flyer to HO scale, 65 years ago.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 19, 2020 6:22 PM

RR_Mel

Sounds like a neat kitbash project Tom.

Yes

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, August 19, 2020 6:45 PM

Heater coils? For specialty high-value or high-weight lubricant -- which by implication would be used at very high temperature?  That makes me think of ultrasupercritical steam turbines, which were becoming a 'thing' in electric power generation around that time...  Hey Mike Lehman? What were the oil requirements for large deployments of Bomarcs or components of other strategic programs?

This raises another possibility for specialty tanks -- high-temperature organic heat/transfer agents.  Some applications involved 'coolant' that would not boil at 500+ degrees F but that wasn't a multieffect hazard like NaK.  Those would have to travel in 'industrial quantities' with fairly competent heaters.

And then there's the stillborn idea of organic primary coolant in nuclear reactors, as in the experiment at Piqua.  There is quite a bit of actual tech information on the Web characterizing the precise nature of the 'best' alternatives.  That none turned out to be particularly 'good' alternatives ... after running the reactor at power an interestingly portentous length of time! ... does not diminish the usefulness of the idea as an excuse to run a specialty tank car...

In all probability, though, this was for specialty lube for equipment in steelmaking or heavy fabrication.  Surely someone will know.

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Posted by mvlandsw on Wednesday, August 19, 2020 9:52 PM

I took a picture of NATX 18902 in an eastbound Conrail train on the ex PRR Connemaugh division in 1981. It was going through Millvale, just outside side of Pittsburgh, Pa.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Thursday, August 20, 2020 3:11 AM

NHTX
  It was equipped with heater coils...

It would appear that the heater coils were not in use in this photo.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1424190

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Posted by NHTX on Thursday, August 20, 2020 9:35 AM

      Bear, I agree.  Truthfully, Not much in that photo indicates recent use, by the rust on the wheel treads.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, August 20, 2020 9:42 AM

It would appear that the heater coils were not in use in this photo.

I once read an article on tank cars that said that most specialized tank cars were built with heater pipes whether or not they were known to be needed. Since these were inexpensive to add at the time of building, if there was any chance you might need them in the future, it was prudent to include them in the car when built.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, August 20, 2020 10:24 AM

Keep in mind that heater coils are not in use when the car is in transit; there is no economical source of steam either on the train or in logical yard facilities.  In most cases the car will handle far better with the contents fully 'congealed' in transit: there can be serious stability problems with certain kinds of viscous loads (glacial acetic acid as I recall is one) which have large inertial moment but slow 'slosh' period.  I remember standing next to a tank car in Shreveport one night that was creaking and rocking dramatically for this reason.

In the recent discussion of 'honey tank cars' I came across mention that something like 10 hours of heating was allowed to get the load to flow.  A load with bulk insulating properties, which I think heavy lubricant might exhibit, might take longer to heat, particularly if excessive spot overheating might occur when using superheated steam at pressure to get high enough temperature in the coils, at high enough mass flow to 'hurry things ups.  That might cause product degradation or even outgassing.

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Posted by cv_acr on Thursday, August 20, 2020 11:46 AM

There were more modern multi-compartment tanks built as well.

2-compartments:

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=prox1029&o=procor

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=acfx71672&o=ge_railcar

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=acfx71674_2&o=ge_railcar

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=cgtx29603&o=cgtx

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=gatx14495&o=gatx

A couple with 4 compartments:

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=eusx448038&o=exxon

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=prox4407&o=procor

 

They are of course less common than single tanks, but then multi-compartment tanks are very specialized, allowing shippers to send smaller quantities of multiple commodities to the same receiver. You can clearly read the different hazmat placard IDs on the two halves of ACFX 71674 (middle photo in the 2-compartment selection).

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