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Guidebook for Static Trackside Signs

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  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, October 22, 2020 6:36 PM

Ian R.
Ed, The first link is of signals.  I'm looking for static signs.



Yes, I understand that and I pointed out that the section that was scanned WAS the signal section of the rule book.

gmpullman
I found a scan of one but it only shows the pages with signal rules:

It is not easy to find an example of a Great Northern rule book complete so I offered that link just to give you an idea of what you might find IN a rulebook.

Ian R.
They're both irrelevant text.

I posted two example pages from the Standard Plans book. Those look like drawings to me. I guess to you they might be text.

From the description on the Amazon offering:

From the Great Northern Railway - a diagram book of Standard Plans. These diagrams show an amazing array of plans: roadbed, signs, sign placement, switch stand placement, fences, platforms, switches, turnouts, frogs, crossings, super elevation and much more. All have to do with track work or track placement or anything that goes in the track right-of-way. There is no index, there are 9 sections: Miscellaneous, Ties and Plates, Rails and Fastenings, Signs, Fence, Frogs, Turnouts, Guard Rails, Switches and Stands. 250 pages of diagrams!

Sorry I can not help you find static signs. I feel I let you down.

Regards, Ed

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Omaha, NE
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Posted by dehusman on Thursday, October 22, 2020 6:32 PM

Unless you are modeling in an airplane hanger, you aren't going to have room to place most signs prototypically, your are going to have to place them waaaaaaaaaay closer than the real thing.  So placement isn't really that big of a deal.

You already have several of the most common signs shown above:  grade crossing, station sign, station one mile and bridge marker.  The GN rule shows a speed restriction sign that is a sign at a 45 degree angle "up" with the speed written on it.  If there is a separate speed for freight and passenger, the passenger speed sign will be on top with a "P" in front of it and the frieght an "F" in front of it (as in "P-79" or "F-25").  They are located 1 mile in advance of the restriction and at the beginning of the restriction there is a sign with 45 degree yellow and black barrier stripes, also mounted at a 45 degree angle.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
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Posted by Ian R. on Thursday, October 22, 2020 5:09 PM

Chris,

The types of signs you cite help a bit in understanding various uses.  The GNRHS also didn't have what I'm after.

  • Member since
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Posted by Ian R. on Thursday, October 22, 2020 5:06 PM

Ed,

The first link is of signals.  I'm looking for static signs.

I've since looked into the Standard Plans and a rules book, neither of which has information I seek.  They're both irrelevant text.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Omaha, NE
  • 10,621 posts
Posted by dehusman on Monday, October 19, 2020 2:08 PM

cv_acr
There are some common/standard sign usages like

The types of signs, what they say, are common.  The appearance, form and when they were used varies between railroads and eras.

Yard limts weren't used on many railroads before 1900, so there weren't those signs.  After 1900, there are the Y signs, oval signs, rectangular signs and combinations of those.

Temporary restriction signs date from the 1960's, so they didn't exist in the before then.

Whistle post were W's, X's, "_ _ ._ " posts on different roads.  Railroad engineering standards books will have appropriate signs for the era it was issued.

Special instruction books, timetables and rules books sometimes, but not always have pictures of signs.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
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  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
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Posted by wjstix on Monday, October 19, 2020 11:57 AM

I would second getting access to a Great Northern rulebook for employees. Every railroad did/does things their own way, there's no national uniform way of doing things. Employee rulebooks / timetables show up once in a while on Ebay. Unfortunately, the GN Historical Society probably isn't going to have much, although their "Modeller's Pages" section does have a question and answer section.

Stix
  • Member since
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  • From: Canada
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Posted by cv_acr on Monday, October 19, 2020 11:33 AM

This question has come up before and your best bet is probably the GN group/society, and the specific signage can vary in appearance from railroad to railroad.

There are some common/standard sign usages like

- whistle posts, indicating to blow whistle for upcoming crossing(s)

- speed limit signs

- flanger signs, indicating upcoming obstructions between rails (crossing plants, guard rails, switch points, etc. for which snow-clearing flanger blades must be lifted)

- mile posts

- station signs

- "mileboards" (1 mile to station)

- yard limit signs

- restricted [side] clearance

- derail markers

- temporary restriction "flags" put out by maintenance foreman, etc.

- misc other signage indicating block/circuit boundaries, end of main track, begin/end certain types of operation, etc. etc.

Thing is, while signs giving the above meanings may be present on most railroads (other than flanger signs on some southern lines perhaps), they may look completely differently from one railroad to another. Your railroad will usually have published "General Operating Instructions" books to their employees that will show examples of what the signs look like and mean on that road.

  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, October 19, 2020 11:19 AM

Ian R.
Does such a publication exist and where can I find it?

Some of what you are looking for may be found in an operating rule book for the era you model. I found a scan of one but it only shows the pages with signal rules:

https://railroadsignals.us/rulebooks/GN29/index.htm

It may be worthwhile to join a historical society for more in-depth information.

https://www.gnrhs.org/

Many railroads had a book of "Standard Plans" and I'm sure the GN did, too. I have ones for PRR, NYC and B&O.

Here are some examples.

 

And here's an outfit selling one for GN on a CD:

https://railfandepot.com/product/great-northern-railway-standard-plans-diagrams/

Or from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Northern-Railroad-Standard-Diagram-CD-ROM/dp/B0049Y80TG

 

 GN_sign by Edmund, on Flickr

 

 Often, the B&B department will have a specific set for structures and the Signal Department will have another set for circuits and signals.

Good Luck, Ed

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, October 19, 2020 10:35 AM

Good question.

I know the purpose and location of Yard Limit signs and Whistle Post markers, but that is about all.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    July 2020
  • 35 posts
Guidebook for Static Trackside Signs
Posted by Ian R. on Friday, August 14, 2020 8:14 PM

I'm looking for a guidebook, website or other reference source with color photos or drawings that concisely explains the functions and placement of the various static trackside signs commonly found on the prototype across the U.S.  I model the GN in the transition era. 

Does such a publication exist and where can I find it?

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