Coil Cars for non-Ferrous & Covered Hoppers for Pet-Coke

[wp8thsub]

dehusman

I worked in Houston and Salt Lake City in the 1980's and 1990's and both places shipped pet coke, both places only shipped it in open top hoppers...

Petroleum coke is still shipped from the SLC area in open hoppers, typically former MP four-bay cars like the ExactRail model.

[mbinsewi]

It looks like you answered your own question, with the Google satellite image.  Those are definitely covered hoppers, with the long "grain loading" doors.

And, a trackmobile to move them around.

Mike.

[Lazers]

Hi, Again, thanks for your replies. My enquiry re Pet Coke in Covered Hoppers refers to Hickman Williams Ltd, La Porte, Indiana who take P/C via the CSS&SB Freight along the Kingsbury branch.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6536387,-86.7457309,438m/data=!3m1!1e3

The Hoppers appear to be covered and I pressume that this is due to 10th & 11th Street-running in Michigan City. Unless they are via the CN interchange, close by?

I have tried contacting CSS and Businesses directly - but no luck (yet) Paul

[dehusman]

I worked in Houston and Salt Lake City in the 1980's and 1990's and both places shipped pet coke, both places only shipped it in open top hoppers and neither place ground it to fines befor shipping.  The coke in both cases was "mine run", a mix of sizes from fines up through softball (two fists) size chunks.

[ericsp]

I don't know if it is due to the grade of coke or the routing but some petroleum coke is shipped in Center-flow hoppers.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Benicia,+CA/@38.0703567,-122.1416134,175m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80856db5fb326033:0x9c2e0b0755afa15d!8m2!3d38.049365!4d-122.1585777

[Overmod]

doctorwayne

I can only attest to what I've seen, and having been on a coal train during the loading procedure, the coal was definitely not dust, but it certainly wouldn't have been classified as lumps...perhaps Buckwheat, or Pea. 

The stuff I have been seeing on our unit trains (and picked up souvenirs from after a rather messy derailment thereof) is lump, but less than 'locomotive' size (which in late-Forties North American recommended practice would have graded about 2" and been washed of fines and extraneous matter before being placed -- with minimal impact -- in the tender.

The situation with powerplant coal in typical modern firing (cyclones being obsolescent for NOx reasons) is that it will be reduced to a particular size that gives full flame travel without impingement on the fireside of a once-through boiler at typical turndown.  Now, rather obviously, a size of feed coal to such a plant will require less power and time to 'grind' if it is smaller, but if the coal is to be stockpiled for any particular time the greatly increased surface area even of buckwheat may cause premature aging or add to a tendency for coal-pile fires, particularly at 'wet' seasons of the year.  So presumably the size that a given plant's unloaders and fuel-handling systems can accommodate will be related to how quickly deliveries of coal will be consumed.

I don't have firsthand experience with metallurgical coal, so I defer to readers who do.  I would suspect that higher volatile-content loss might be less significant, as might lower inherent sulfur and phosphorus content.

[doctorwayne]

I can only attest to what I've seen, and having been on a coal train during the loading procedure, the coal was definitely not dust, but it certainly wouldn't have been classified as lumps...perhaps Buckwheat, or Pea.  I don't know what was its intended use, but I may be able to get some more info on it. 
I can't find them, but I was sure that I had photos taken during the loading process. 

The only one I could find was this one, of the loader, as we approached it....

You can see, though, from the spillage on the ground, that the coal is not in chunks of any sort.

The train with the coal dust blowing around in the earlier photo was not the one that I saw being loaded.

Wayne

[Overmod]

doctorwayne

... much of the coal is quite fine in size.  In that form, it's mostly for applications where it's injected under air pressure when burned, as in some power plants.

Whoa!  the 'fines' are the result of handling and trituration during transport; there's no real advantage to grinding (or attempting to feed) the coal to smaller size and higher surface area anywhere before the pulverizer arrangement associated with the burners.  The fines contaminating the ballast at the 'start' of the PRB trips, like the haze that rises from some kinds of loaded coal, represents mostly if not entirely waste.

[doctorwayne]

At the steel plant where I worked, some coils were shipped in 50' or 60' insulated boxcars,with plugdoors.

I didn't work in that department, so don't know why this method was used.  I suspect the coils were high-value and for a specific user somewhere in the U.S., as the cars were always from Union Pacific, rather than a Canadian home-road.  The plant had both zinc and galvanising mills for coils, but I can't say if they were so-treated or if they were a specific alloy which didn't require such treatment.

As for covering hopper cars, those Twin Flex covers seem to be a good solution.  However, even regular coal shipped in open hoppers can spew a fair amount of coal dust...

...as much of the coal is quite fine in size.  In that form, it's mostly for applications where it's injected under air pressure when burned, as in some power plants.

Wayne

 

[Lazers]

Hi guys, thanks for your replies. The 'Twin Flex' (tm) is just the ticket. I had searched online, with no results (possibly because I am in the UK) The (loaded) shape of the Covers is a bit like the 'Hopper-Toppers', as used by the Chessie Railroad, to convert Coal Hoppers for Grain, during Harvest time.

Coil Cars for all types is what I thought, since I suppose most Coiled material will be 'Mill-finish' when being transported to a 'Finishing' company. I asked the Q because whenever I design machinery for the Food Industry, dedicated non-ferrous manufacturing areas and equipment is mandatory.

Thanks again, Paul

[gmpullman]

I've seen the more expensive coiled alloys wrapped in protective materials and as Caldreamer states, shipped like any other.

https://lamiflex.com/en/solutions/coil/

 

Of course, in protected coil cars such as these:

https://exactrail.com/products/thrall-54-ns-protector-coil-car

Good Luck, Ed

[caldreamer]

Coil cars will carry coils of any product (any type of steel or aluminum).

   Caldreamer

[mbinsewi]

Here's an interesting company that makes covers for hoppers, for hauling petcoke.

I'm not sure about your question about coil cars.  I wouldn't think they would have to be dedicated.

Mike.

[Lazers]

Hi,

Could anyone help me research the above two subjects, please.

1. I have only seen photo's and references to C/C's transporting Steel Coil and wondered if they also carried Coils of Aluminium & Stainless Steel? If they do, would dedicated C/C's be used for Al'n & St.St. to avoid contamination from Ferrous?
2. Due the dust emitted by Pet-Coke, in case of Street-running thru a Residential area, would Covered Hoppers be used in place of Open-top ones? If Covered Hoppers were used, what type of Hatches would they have?

I am looking to purchase Freight-stock and whist C/C's are what they are, the Hoppers pose more of a decision.

Thanks, Paul